Heritage Bn. - 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor

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Dec 28, 2009, 11:17am

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Heritage Bn. :: General :: Weapons & Materiel :: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor

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Topic: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor (Read 124 times)

one50
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6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Thread Started on Nov 6, 2009, 11:16am »

I had a theory that the Japanese force on Corregidor at the time of the 503rd assault used only 6.5 ammo (the Type 38 rifle, Type 44 carbine, Type 38 carbine, etc). With every theory you have to prove it. I have a Type 38 rifle taken from the Corregidor, from a vet in the 462nd. Thus my theory was born.

I present to you this photo and it's captions. Notice the GI on the right holding a gun with a bayonet. That gun is definitely a Japanese Type 99 (7.7 ammo). My theory is fading fast.. which is cool.

What I need to know from you guys who have been to the Island a few hundred times is this. Have any of you found 6.5 and or 7.7 ammo or spent casings? If so I would love to see photos of them and the head stamp. The Japanese actually didn't mark their ammo so the head stamp should be blank.

Also, maybe this picture is not actually Corregidor. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Thank you
Dan

[image]

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Always looking to add WWII Japanese items to my collection. Please contact me if you have anything of interest.

fots2
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #1 on Nov 6, 2009, 3:46pm »

Hi one50,

Sorry I cannot help you with the location of the photo.

I am only a collector of photos but I did find a bullet in very good shape in the Quartermaster area of Malinta Tunnel one day. I could not find the shell casing for it. I put the bullet in my pocket and forgot about it until I noticed it after getting home.

I don’t know if this helps you but I’ll try to find it if you need any other view or to make a measurement. For size comparison there is a small Swiss Army knife beside it. There are no marks on it except for the stamped ring you can see.

Is this what you are looking for? Is it Japanese or American?

[image]

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one50
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #2 on Nov 8, 2009, 11:15am »

Fots2 thanks for sharing your find. It's definitely not a 6.5. It could be a 7.7 or a 30-06. It looks very much like a 7.7 can't be 100% sure without using a set of calipers to measure it's width. I'm leaning towards it coming from a 7.7mm semi rimed cartridge. Semi rimed cartridges were for Japanese machine guns. The non rimmed 7.7 were used for rifles. Your bullet looks exactly like the 7.7 semi rimmed bullets I have.

Should be .311 or .312 diameter (inches) in that range.
A 30-06 should be about .308 diameter (inches) range.

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fots2
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #3 on Nov 8, 2009, 11:07pm »

Thanks for your comments. I do not have calipers to confirm it 100% but that info is close enough for me.

Good luck with your search.

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batteryboy
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #4 on Nov 18, 2009, 6:07pm »

I cant recall any banzai or Japanese infiltrations on the shore lines of Corregidor, most especially at the South beach. Notice that the grounds looks more of mud than sand. This may have been taken somewhere else.

However, I can be wrong.

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EXO
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #5 on Nov 19, 2009, 5:26am »

There were a few instances involving actions on the beach:

[a] 'A' Co of the 34th IR heard splashes in the water on the night of the 16th. "There were little whirlpools of phosphorescence. At first they thought it was porpoises gamboling. But they took no chances. They fired. They heard screams. It was a bunch of Nips trying to swim around San Jose Point with waterproofed packages of TNT strapped to their bellies. "Able" Company killed twenty-three of the swimmers."

However, these swimmers were described as being naked, or semi-naked.

[b] There were still tunnels around the area. There's also the story by Valtin, who writes "A soldier checking a broken telephone wire slipped around a rocky nose and suddenly found himself in front of one of the tunnels. Nine Japs came popping out of the tunnel. The line-man, Jack Sparkman (Littlefield, Texas) backed off the way he had come. The Japs followed him, skirting the rock in single file. Jack Sparkman grew desperate. Finally he yelled,

"Ain't there anybody who kin shoot those Japs?"

Gunfire from somewhere answered his plea. Sparkman heard the slugs whizz by his ears. They killed five of the Nips and the others dodged back into their tunnel."

There would be numerous instances of small groups of Japanese being killed along the beaches, so numerous that only the most unusual were ever likely to be reported or recorded.

The GI's in the photo don't look like paratroopers, though nothing critical turns upon that identification. The attention of the 503d was not on the beaches, or on the heights of Malinta Hill - those were for the attention of the 34th Infantry Regiment, 24th Infantry Division.

Now for an advert - more a reminder - Valtin's article can be found in the sister site now open - http://rockforce.org which we shall continue to develop to reflect the role of the other units on Corregidor, not just the 503d.

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mgk1951
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #6 on Nov 20, 2009, 5:12pm »

Hi

There were other significant differences when comparing US .30-06 cal and 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka projectiles. Firstly, the US .30-06 projectile was 150 grains, while the 7.7mm Arisaka was 174 grains. Not an easy field observation to confirm without finding both projectiles.

However, the easiest way to identify which is which is by sight. The US .30-06 is a short projectile with the Cannelure proportionally closer to the base of the projectile. The 7.7mm Arisaka was a copy of the .303 British cartridge, except it was rimless.

Other than that, the 7.7mm cartridge and projectile were the same as the .303 British cartridge and projectile. The 7.7mm Arisaka projectile has the Cannelure further away from the projectile's base. The projectile being considerably longer than the US .30-06 projectile.

The only reason I have mentioned the .303 British cartridge is because I cannot find a photograph of the 7.7mm Arisaka projectile separated from it's cartridge case. Below is a composite image of all three cartridges and the US and British projectile separate.

[image]

The profile of the British and Arasaka rounds can be compared and compared to the US round. The projectiles separate from their cartridge cases illustrate the difference in the projectile profiles.

So, what is the calibre of the projectile found by fots2? Now every visitor to Corregidor will be head done looking for projectiles.

Regards

mgk

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one50
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #7 on Nov 26, 2009, 10:49am »

Thanks MGK for sharing.

I have original 7.7, but not the heart to break one open. I probably should though. I'll ask a few buddies that have Japanese ammo collections, maybe I can get a good photo from them.

...and yes, please keep you eyes peeled for any small arms ammo lying around. If your lucky, you might find some 8mm Japanese pistol ammo. That would be a treat to find.

Thanks
Dan

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mgk1951
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Re: 6.5 and 7.7 ammo on Corregidor
« Reply #8 on Dec 16, 2009, 1:07pm »

Hi

US Army drawing of sectionalised Type 99 7.7mm Japanese Rifle Calibre Ammunition.

[image]

Regards

mgk

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