|
 Author | Topic: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor? (Read 1,148 times) |
Karl Welteke
Buff
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://corregidor.org/bb/karl.jpg)
Joined: Jul 2006
Gender: Male 
Posts: 161
Location: Subic Bay and Oahu
|  | Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Thread Started on Mar 21, 2008, 1:47pm » | ![[Quote]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) |
On my visit to the Rock, 14th-16th March 2008, I came across another surprise.....I seen a tank gun barrel or so the RP Coast Guard Personnel said, that's what it was.
It was laying in front of their station.
They said it was from a tank on Caballo Island. I assumed that would the one I know of, the US tank which seemed to have run on a mine at the SE shore of Caballo Island.
They answered several times in the affirmative, that it was that tank where it came from.
Here are 3 images of that gun barrel:
http://tinyurl.com/arjdjw
or
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i265/P....0Coast%20Guard/
|
Karl-Wilhelm Welteke |
|
batteryboy
Buff
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii385/tferedo/avatars/kittycat2.jpg)
Am back!!!... and still a Big Fan Of The Cat!!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 282
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #1 on Mar 21, 2008, 4:05pm » | |
Hi Karl,
I really doubt if this came from the beached M4 Sherman at Caballo. The barrel of that tank has been cut and its so badly corroded that I doubt if they were able to take it off.
Below are the pics:
![[image]](http://beyondtheworkbench.com/postimage/m4caballofront.JPG)
![[image]](http://beyondtheworkbench.com/postimage/m4caballobreech.JPG)
![[image]](http://beyondtheworkbench.com/postimage/m4caballoside.JPG)
Now the alleged "barrel" that you posted is in a much better shape. I even doubt if its a barrel of a gun. It may even be a recoil mechanism of another gun, and according to Art Napolitano, it does not even look like its US made. Remember that we discoverd a Japanese Mk X dual purpose 120mm gun at the side of the Caballo cliff that the Navy guys did not even knew existed until we found it two years ago. It may have come from there but am really not to sure. The Navy has stockpiled a lot of ordnance in the island that we havent seen.
However, it's still an interesting find.
Regards,
Tony
| |
|
Karl Welteke
Buff
member is offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 161
Location: Subic Bay and Oahu
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #2 on Mar 21, 2008, 8:23pm » | |
Tony
You convinced me! 
I will inquire further on my next visit on 2nd April 2008
|
Karl-Wilhelm Welteke |
|
Karl Welteke
Buff
member is offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 161
Location: Subic Bay and Oahu
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #3 on Aug 29, 2008, 8:19am » | |
On my visit 18th of August 2008 the alleged gun was still there and is now painted. One of the key people on the island said “The Coast Guard personnel got this tank gun from fishermen who got it out of the water near Caballo island”.
Here is the image URL:
http://tinyurl.com/arjdjw
or
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i265/P....0Coast%20Guard/
|
Karl-Wilhelm Welteke |
|
EXO
Administrator
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://corregidor.org/_admin/503.jpg)
![[homepage]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/www_sm.gif)
Joined: Jul 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 318
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #4 on Aug 29, 2008, 9:29pm » | |
I'm not a redleg's big toe, but I have been inside a number of turrets, both tanks (including a Sherman) and otherwise, and I seen many an artillery piece. It seems to me that for this to be a tank barrel of any sort, there needs to be a breech - and they just didn't come in any two piece "fit Part A into Part B" designs which would allow a separation as pictured.
I suspect that the replies which you have been given were another example of the "polite affirmative" - a tendency that certain persons have involving the use of words which sound remarkably like the word you understand to be "Yes" but in fact mean "I don't have a cow, man,you've obviously confused me with someone who can give an authoritative answer" (or words to that effect).
I think it is a poor man's gate guard. (the Coast Guard's practical joke on tourists? a way to meet girls?) Let us give thanks that whatever it is, it's not on the way to the scrappers.
|
eXo |
|
The Phantom
Buff
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://corregidor.org/bb/phantom.jpg)
Ghost Who Walks!
Joined: Jul 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 311
Location: TX
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #5 on Aug 30, 2008, 1:52am » | |
Now Paul, it must be real, as put forth by Coast Guard personnel.
After all it's now painted "GREEN", the official color of all guns on the Rock.........
Thats the color Marcos' grandson, and all his International School mates paint them on their yearly trips to restore Corregidor to it's former glory.
You remember running into them on one trip, right? Special foods, separate tables for the lot. Body guards asking questions as to your presence on Corregidor at the time?
I digress,
The corrosion on the metal does not appear to be as you would expect of something under the sea off Corregidor since the end of the war. See tank in photos, just in salt spray and waves.......
I weigh in on recently created cannon for pictures in front of Coast Guard Headquarters, opening the opportunity for......
"Hey, you want buy this button I found........right here on Corregidor"?
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Images/IM000353a.jpg)
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #6 on Feb 4, 2009, 4:56pm » | |
Hi
Since seeing the early photos in this thread, I've been intrigued as to what this relic actually was originally. I stopped and photographed it during our January '09 visit and had a closer look. Well, after a lengthy search of written and photographic references, I'm still not sure what it was.
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Corregidor/DSC03957-1.jpg)
However, what I can say is that it has a rifled bore of about 3", may have had a breech block and breech, which have been removed. There are still intact, the remains of the slide/wear plates that would be part of a recoil mechanism. A circular plate has been welded where the breech (possibly) has been removed. The plate has holes drilled in it, probably to make the item into a bolt down bollard or gate guardian.
So, are there any contenders for what this relic might be? Well, may I offer the following photograph as a possible answer? This photo, taken two years ago, is of a Excalibur sub-caliber gun from Battery Smith or Hearn.
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Corregidor/IM000590-1.jpg)
This gun has now migrated to the topside parade ground. It is almost complete, but by ignoring the recoil mechanism and breach, it is possible to see a similarity with the Coast Guard relic. Similarities include the web of metal forming the recoil engaging slide; block on top of the relic (where, on the gun, the top recoil cylinder is fitted); and collar towards the outer end of the relic (corresponding with that on the gun barrel).
I have read one reference regarding the Excalibur guns, which suggests they were constructed from the Ordnance Department, manufactured 75mm Fieldgun M 16.
The relic is quite rusty and it might not be possible to further identify.
mapmaster
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #7 on Nov 5, 2009, 5:57pm » | |
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Corregidor/75mmsub-calibre.jpg)
"A picture says a thousand words", only problem is 'which picture' and where does one have to look to find it?
Regards
mapmaster
| |
|
fots2
Buff
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://corregidor.org/bb/fots.jpg)
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 482
Location: Laguna
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #8 on Nov 5, 2009, 6:29pm » | |
I would say that you definitely win the prize for solving this mystery mapmaster.
Can I ask a dumb question? What is a sub caliber gun and why stick it in the barrel of a 14-inch gun?
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #9 on Nov 5, 2009, 7:38pm » | |
Hi fots2
The sub-calibre gun was used to allow full drill practice and firing of the full calibre gun without causing wear to the latter's barrel. The subject sub-calibre would have fired a steel or cast iron round and would have allowed all drill except load of a 14 inch drill round and dummy propelling charges. The 14 inch disappearing gun would also have had to have been lowered by hand for loading the sub-calibre.
Regards
mapmaster
| |
|
fots2
Buff
member is offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 482
Location: Laguna
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #10 on Nov 5, 2009, 9:13pm » | |
I never heard of that before. Thank-you for the explanation.
| |
|
The Phantom
Buff
member is offline
Ghost Who Walks!
Joined: Jul 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 311
Location: TX
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #11 on Nov 6, 2009, 4:10am » | |
Good stuff Mapmaster. Sure looks like your picture minus a few parts that could have rusted off or been sold off.
With your picture, and explanation as to what this barrel may well be, I think we should revisit the original explanation as to where exactly it was found as described by the Coast Guard in the original statement of this thread.
Is it from Caballo, off it's coast or inland? Inside one of the tunnels?
If they found it in the ocean, where was it? Was it headed for the scrappers in Japan at one time?
Had the American's forced to strip the islands of metal in 1942, etc. "dropped" it in the ocean by mistake?
Or is it still in existence because Caballo is still in the Philippine Navy's hands after we turned the island over in the 60's?
More respect for old metal..........
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #12 on Nov 6, 2009, 6:45am » | |
Hi
Correct - more respect for the old metal and a lot of truth in the story that came with it.
Where was the closest 14in Disappearing Gun to Corregidor? Caballo Island.
Where was the sub-calibre gun found? On or off Caballo Island.
The Philippines Coast Guard have a true relic displayed - good on them!
Regards
mapmaster
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #13 on Nov 6, 2009, 7:30pm » | |
Hi Everyone
I thought I might as well finish this thread with some images of the US Model 1916 75mm Field Gun to illustrate its metamorphosis into the 75mm Sub Caliber M1916MIIM1 Gun (image several posts above) and into other forms of artillery.
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Coast%20artillery/M191675mmGun.jpg)
US Model 1916 75mm Field Gun
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Coast%20artillery/75mmModelof1917AA.jpg)
US Model of 1917 75mm AA Gun
![[image]](http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo117/mgk0951/Coast%20artillery/M191675mmsubcaliber.jpg)
M1916 75mm Sub Caliber Gun for the 12 inch and 16 inch Barbette Carriages
Regards
mapmaster
| |
|
okla
Buff
member is offline
![[avatar]](http://corregidor.org/bb/okla.jpg)
Joined: Nov 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 278
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #14 on Nov 7, 2009, 12:18am » | |
Hey Mapmaster....Thanks much for the info on the gun barrel,etc question. Seems that I learn something new almost everyday from this website. I have had my "wonders" in the past as to just what that "thingamajig" was that sat atop some of the big guns. Now I am able to add a little something to the information pool with my small circle of WW 2 buffs that I hang with. Thanks again. This is good stuff.
| |
|
mapmaster
Global Moderator
SpamKiller
member is offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
| | Re: Tank Gun Barrel on Corregidor?
« Reply #15 on Nov 7, 2009, 6:08am » | |
Hi okla
All part of the service. I was actually looking for something else and solved this query instead. Now all I have to do is find the solution to my original problem.
It is interesting to see that items of interest are still being discovered in, under and around the "Forts of Manila and Subic Bays" - not quite everybodiy's treasure, but treasure still.
Regards
mapmaster
| |
|
|
![[Search This Thread]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/search2.gif)
![[Reply]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/reply.gif)
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif)
![[Print]](http://s1.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif)
Logged