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Post by victor on Dec 14, 2008 10:31:53 GMT 8
What would have happened during the Bataan campaign if Fort Wint at the entrance to Subic Bay was not abandoned by USAFFE? I'm thinking it could have delayed the surrender by as much as a month or two.
- The Japanese wouldn't have been able to readily land reinforcements on Subic, delaying the second offensive.
- The Battle of the Points where the Japanese tried to flank Bataan and land troops on the western shore wouldn't have happened. That force originated from Subic. As a result, USAFFE's I and II Corps wouldn't have had to fight an exhaustive series of battles at the points and wouldn't have suffered heavy casualties. This would have given them more strength to resist the last Japanese offensive.
- The Japanese may have deemed it necessary to capture Fort Wint first in order to win the battle of Bataan. They may have concentrated their efforts in capturing it first and who knows how long that would have taken. It would have eased the pressure at the Bataan frontlines immensely at the beginning of the campaign.
I don't know... I just think it was such a waste to have abandoned it. What do you CA experts think? Any 2 cents?
-victor
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Post by fots2 on Dec 14, 2008 16:28:00 GMT 8
Text from a book about Subic Bay:
Fort Wint, under the command of Army Colonel Napoleon Boudreu, was evacuated on December 25th. All equipment and supplies were either removed or rendered useless. The reason for abandoning Fort Wint and who ordered it is one of the minor mysteries of the war. Various sources give conflicting accounts. In the opinion of the official investigation, whatever the reason for its evacuation "without a struggle gave the Japanese an important objective at no cost. The American garrison on Grande Island, even if it was ultimately lost, might well have paid substantial dividends and certainly would have given the Japanese many uncomfortable moments. From Fort Wint the Americans with their large guns could have disputed control of the bay and of Olongapo, which later became an important enemy supply base and would have constituted a threat to the flank of any Japanese force advancing down the west coast of Bataan."
Soldiers of the 14th Infantry Division, Japanese Imperial Army marched into Olongapo on January 10, 1942. Two days later the Japanese used native boats to seize Grande Island. The Subic Bay naval station was established with 4 companies of soldiers and 1 company of Kempetai, or military police.
Source: SUBIC BAY From Magellan to Mt. Pinatubo; by: Gerald R. Anderson
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Post by okla on Dec 15, 2008 0:43:02 GMT 8
hey vic...you make plausible points, but it would seem to me that the japanese, without actually occupying the fort, could have pretty well neutralized wint to the point that it would have been no threat to operations mounted from that location. you are certainly correct that the fort would have been a thorn in the nipponese backside if it could have been held and its armament used in its intended way, but i gotta think that the little outpost would have been pulverized to the point of uselessness in fairly short order. didnt colonel boudreau finish the campaign as commander of fort drum, presiding over its surrender?
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Post by batteryboy on Dec 15, 2008 21:41:56 GMT 8
If Fort Wint was not abandoned then it would have shared the same fate as the other harbor forts but only quicker. It was easy for the Japanese to come in from the rear and take the fort EVEN if the 155mm were not evacuated, then Wint would have been subjected to relentless Japanese attacks. The CA did the proper job of moving out of Wint and bringing those 155mms to better use in Bataan.
On a trivial note, Japanese shipping to Subic Bay came under harrasing fire form a single 8-inch gun located at Saysain Point in Bataan. In early 2000 some of us 'coasties' visited the place and went to the location of the gun emplacement but it was already buried under earth when the area was bulldozed. Originally, there were suppose to be two guns but the other placement had a problem in the mount so the other 8-inch gun made its way to Corregidor and becamse the armamament of Battery RJ-43. That 8-inch gun barrel is still present today at the North Dock.
FWIW
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Post by victor on Dec 17, 2008 12:04:07 GMT 8
I agree that Fort Wint may have been a just "bump in the road" in the Japanese offensive. What I'm wondering about is how much it could have delayed the Japanese offensive and prolong the campaign.
If the Japanese didn't invade it and simply moved all their supplies through the land route from Lingayen, then that may have added weeks to the campaign. The seaborne flanking attack that resulted in the Battle of the Points may have never happened. If this didn't happen, the USAFFE army would have been less worn down -- but I admit I'm not sure how much that would have been a factor in the final days.
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Post by batteryboy on Dec 17, 2008 17:20:08 GMT 8
I agree wth you that if Wint was held then it would have delayed the use of Subic as a Japanese staging area for the Battle of the Points. They can still mount a landing on the Points via Lingayen but this would require the use of more than just landing barges and craft but transports and even light cruisers and destroyers. However the use of such force will alert the USAFFEE and be waiting for the Japanese.
Subic was a convenient way to launch an attack in the Points mainly because of the short distance thus they can easily achieve surprise which was the key element why the Japanese attempted this. They had no real plans of invading Bataan by sea as they know that USAFFEE artillery can wreck havoc. The only way to do so was by a small landing force and by surprise.
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