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Post by fireball on Aug 22, 2011 20:35:46 GMT 8
I have been unable to find out any info about this Island apart from the often repeated statement it was not part of the coastal defence. This seems rather odd with it being located at the junction of the North channel mine fields, as well as its value as an observation point - all this just suggests some activity even if it was to ensure the denial of its use to others. So if anyone has any thoughts, info or pics ??
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 23, 2011 10:21:17 GMT 8
There was land defense plan in 1919 to install two powerful 16-inch Army guns encased in turrets (similar) to Fort Drum but the plan was shelved after the signing of the treaty of the super powers after WWI.
Will post the plans when I get home.
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 24, 2011 15:33:46 GMT 8
As promised: Note from Karl: This picture was blocked until 1 Sep. 2017 by Photobucket because they changed their terms. It is now reposted from a different friendlier server! Note from Karl: This picture was blocked until 1 Sep. 2017 by Photobucket because they changed their terms. It is now reposted from a different friendlier server! Regards,
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Post by fireball on Aug 24, 2011 21:08:43 GMT 8
Great, Thanks
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Post by okla on Aug 24, 2011 21:22:07 GMT 8
Hey Battery.....Had these fortifications been constructed, they would, indeed, have been formidable for that day and time. I wonder what havoc, if they hadn't been knocked out by early May, 1942, might have been rained down on those Japanese barges. Of course, the final result would have been the same, but a few more of those little white boxes would have been shipped north to grieving families in Nippon. Using a baseball analogy..."our time at bat would have lasted a bit longer." I have always wondered why a stronger effort wasn't made to hamper the areas where the barges were being gathered. Surely they were in range of Drum's guns. Betcha you have the answer to my query at your finger tips. Right??? Your vast store of knowledge continues to amaze me. Cheers.
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 25, 2011 7:10:57 GMT 8
Well Okla my friend, if those guns were installed at Monja, its range can reach as far Hermosa, Bataan at its maximum elevation and would have caused additional damage to the landing barges. The 16-inch Army guns were said to have been more powerful than its Navy counterparts at that time due to its design and ability to pack in more charges. Here is a 16-inch M1919 Mk-II Coastal Gun on display at Aberdeen. Note from Karl: This picture was blocked until 1 Sep. 2017 by Photobucket because they changed their terms. It is now reposted from a different friendlier server! Honestly, on the Japanese barges, the 75mm and 155mm would have had a greater effect. A rapid barrage of a battalion of 75mms field guns (8-guns) and if the 3-inch guns of Maxwell Keyes were facing North instread of South, would have caused more damage to the approaching barges due to their rate of fire and coverage of the landing approaches. Alas, most of our beach defense guns at Corregidor were said to have been "unserviceable". Regards,
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Post by okla on Aug 25, 2011 9:20:28 GMT 8
Hey Battery...I don't want to beat a dead horse, but one thing has puzzled me for eons. I have always been puzzled why Fort Drum didn't drop a few of those biggies on the Japanese bage assembly area. It would have been chaos, one would think. I understand that the enemy ran their barges around the southern tip of Bataan under cover of a heavy artillery barrage during the night. Still they would have been exposed up on the east coast of Bataan unless they were gathering them too far north for Drum's big turret guns to been effective. I know that you, again, probably have this info at your finger tips. Cheers. Postscript...I am having big time computer problems this evening so I had best get this reply off into the ozone.
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 25, 2011 15:37:47 GMT 8
Hi Okla,
As far as I can recall, the following batteries were in action on the night of May 5 to early May 6, 1942:
Battery Wilson - two 14-inchers (Fort Drum), Battery Crofton- one 14inch in disappearing carriage (Fort Frank) Battery Frank North - four- 155mms in Panama mounts (Fort Frank) Battery Craighill four -M1912 12-inch Mortars (Fort Hughes) Battery Williams and Hooker Point (one 155mm each battery) Battery Stockade -one-155mm (Fort Mills) Battery Ordnance Point - one 155mm GPF (Fort Mills) Battery Cheney (two 12-inch DC guns) Battery Wheeler (Gun No. 1, 12-inch DC) Battery Way - one serviceable 12-inch mortar (Fort Mills) plus the two 75mm guns at Lt. Lawrence position near the tail.
Amongst all the guns mentioned, the ones that brought the most havoc on the actual barges were the 75mms of Lt. Lawrence. Battery Way sent a few shots to the barges but results undetermined. Battery Wilson's 14-inchers fired towards Cabcacaben (where the barges orgininated) but mostly for interdiction because of the slow rate of fire plus it was dark. Batteries Williams and Hooker Point cannot fire to the barges as they were defiladed by the tail of Corregidor island. I know Stockade and Ordnance point shifted their 155mm in the barges but too late to cause damage as they were already near the landing point and fear that they might hit the beach defenses. All the other batteries were busy trying to silence Japanese batteries in Bataan which were shelling Topside.
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Post by okla on Aug 26, 2011 0:16:25 GMT 8
Hey Battery....I have even read/heard of a plan to utilize some of the small Naval craft (USS Quail,etc) to cruise to the barge assembly area and shoot up the place (probably at night due to Japanese control of the air). This little plan never came to fruition. Maybe the time frame had too small a window. Catching those barges while still in assembly mode would have been catastrophic on the Japs, at least temporarily, methinks. Of course, this falls into the category of "coulda, woulda, shoulda". Kinda akin to critiquing a ball game after you have lost by by a narrow margin. Thanks for your information. Cheers.
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 26, 2011 6:59:02 GMT 8
Yup, Okla my friend. A lot of post morten theories.
Even when the Japanese landed, Skinny and his men could have lasted a few more punching rounds. The news of a Japanese tank landing was more of a pyschological edge for the Japanese. I don't buy that the tank would have cause catastrophic consequences and that the lack of anti tank weapons as a reason is for me B.S. A 75mm hit even with a HE round will be enough to send the tank crew thinking of going further. A few more rounds and it could damade the tracks or even penetrate its thin armour. Plus there were tank obstacles guarding the east entrance of the tunnel and given the destruction all around, I really doubt if the tank could really perform up to speed. In reality, they got bogged down on the beaches.
Either Skinny and his boxers threw the towel early or they were already beat from months of exhaustion.
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