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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 10:02:08 GMT 8
There are several accounts and pictures of sailors at Bataan and Corregidor armed with M1917 rifles, where did they come from?
Nothing seems to indicate a source, and the only logical reason for their being issued is that they were taken from PA stocks. The closest reference that I found indicated that they may have been delivered in trucks at Mariveles.
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Post by batteryboy on Jan 25, 2012 19:21:00 GMT 8
The USN had an assortment of weapons and that included some M1917 Enfield rifles. Some were also issued from PA stocks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 12:50:59 GMT 8
Thanks for the reply batteryboy, so some were taken from PA stocks?
I know that a few photos have turned up of sailors with 1917s performing guard duties on corregidor.
Is there any indication of what the provisional naval battalion was armed with?
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Post by batteryboy on Jan 31, 2012 13:46:31 GMT 8
The provisional Naval Battalion was issued with all sorts of small arms ranging from M1917 Enfields, M1903 Springfields, Lewis MGs (re-chambered for .30 cal), BARs and some shot guns.
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Post by okla on Jan 31, 2012 21:50:54 GMT 8
Hey Battery...Shotguns!!!! Wow, I have never heard that before. I know we used them extensively in "Nam", but have never heard of their use in WW2 nor Korea. I would think their use, in large numbers, would have played hell with an up close Banzai Charge. Thanks for this interesting tidbit. Maybe if the "Rock" had been defended by a couple of Battalions of Oklahoma-West Texas bird hunters then even more of those little "white boxes" would have gone back north. Cheers.
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Post by batteryboy on Feb 1, 2012 7:20:40 GMT 8
Hi Okla,
Shotguns were used in WW1 and WW2. US Marines used them on a lot of occasions.
The provisional naval and air corps battalions formed during the retreat to Bataan were armed with whatever was available or spare small arms that can be issued to them so you will see them with an amazing assortment of weapons. Even veteran Philippine scouts came who came out of retirement (about 300 of them), joined the USAFFE to fight the Japanese and they were armed with shotguns and old remington rifles.
Cheers,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 12:02:56 GMT 8
Hi Batteryboy, that's what I was thinking. So basically if it functioned and they could lay their hands on it they used it.
Hi Okla, I think some of those would be winchester model 1897s but they may have used more and if some were of civilian stock then who knows what all was thrown into the mix. I've heard that the paper shells were problematic in wet enviroments, I wonder if they had problems with it in Bataan & Corregidor?
Hi Batteryboy, were the old remingtons you mentioned the rolling block model left over from the Spanish? I would guess a few krags made it into use during the same time?
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Post by batteryboy on Feb 1, 2012 13:20:46 GMT 8
Hi 1942, Could be but I can verify that a small number of Krags and even the Springfield .22 cal rifles were used. An uncle of mine who served in Bataan was was with a PC unit, mentions that several "loose" firearms in the PC inventory were issued to volunteers. These were few in numbers but anything that can throw hot lead towards the enemy is useful than nothing at all. When my uncle joined the guerilla after his release from O'Donnel, he clearly recalls a few guerillas armed with the old remington and Krag rifles. One guerilla who was with an affluent family even had a Winchester repeating rifle. The study of arms in the first Philippine campaign of WW2 still fascinates me up to this day. p.s. - years back, we even found a few Krag rounds in Corregidor!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:50:11 GMT 8
Hi Batteryboy,
I wonder if the krag ammo was left overs from when it was still issue or if some was commerically made? Very interesting.
I always wondered how much was picked up and removed by the Japanese, since you would think there would have been old obsolete 1917A1 helmets and parts of canvas equipment all over.
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Post by batteryboy on Feb 7, 2012 15:46:27 GMT 8
I cant really say much about the Krag rounds but let me check my inventory list of ammunition on Corregidor.
During the occupation, the Japanese revived the Philippine Constabulary (PC) but named it the Bureau of Constabulary. These new unit was made up of volunteers and discharged POWs from both the Phil Army and PC who were given a "new lease" by the Japanese. They were armed with the old PA uniforms, webbings and armed with M1917 Enfield rifles. Somehow the Japanese never issued them the M1917A1 steel helmets. These were sent to stockpiles and warehouses. A number of these helmets found their way to local film studios wherein Japanese propaganda movies were made with Filipino and Japanese actors against "American soldiers" (who were played in part by Spanish and Filipino mestizos).
Interesting after the war, a lot of the M1917 steel helmets were still present in these studios as evidence by several films in the early 50s up to the 70s that depict scenes involving USAFFE troops. Several of the M1917 Enfield rifles made its way to ROTC units as drill rifles but with replica bolts and firing pins removed. A number of decommissioned M1903 Springfield rifles also made its way to ROTC cadets as drill and instruction rifles.
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