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Post by xray on Nov 25, 2014 12:08:37 GMT 8
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure the words under the pic were not written during the war or soon after. Not that it matters - US government itself had precious few details about the horrors our men faced until a group of men succeed in escaping Japanese captivity and made their way to US lines in mid 1943. Their story was meticulously kept from public view for months after, and these heroes hidden from sight. Politicians calculated that the population would be so outraged that there would be a groundswell of anger and demands for immediate action against the Japs. It was feared this could complicate their [correct] strategy of defeating Germany before Japan, so it was quite some time before the Death March became public knowledge.
BTW, I completely agree with Chad that it is almost certain that your grandfather fought in the viscous Battle of the Points [Longoskawayan]. They were hard up enough for manpower to send in grounded USAAF flyers and navy cooks, they certainly would have sent in every Marine they could have gotten their hands on, and your grandfather was right in the vicinity. Marines and others with ground combat training and experience would have formed the nucleus of improvised assault squads to deal with this dangerous behind the lines incursion .. And I'd also consider it highly probable that he crossed paths with, if not fought right along side, USAAF legend Ed Dyess, who was one of those grounded airmen who, without any aircraft, were turned into improvised infantry men and was heavily involved in this campaign.
[Dyess was one of the group to escape captivity and make it back to the US mentioned above. He was of course raring to get back into the war, and was tragically killed in a training accident flying a P-38, just months after gaining his freedom.] A month later, details of the escaped POW's were finally authorized to be released. Dyess Air Force Base in TX is named in his honor.
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Post by chadhill on Nov 26, 2014 10:21:16 GMT 8
Good posts, xray. I'll bet that SWAG about the photo of the POWs-in-column is right on, that this is probably a work detail. If Mr. Howe is indeed in the column photo I would think that would just about confirm he was on Corregidor the night of May 5-6. I am still thinking that a good guess is he must have escaped from the Death March and made his way to Corregidor, as SGT Pike of Company M 3rd Battalion did. PFC Loewe said that several Marines escaped from Bataan to the island fortress. Phantom had a good thread about the work details called "Captured on Corregidor", based on John Wright's book by the same name. Here is a link to page 3 of that thread where it begins to talk about Kirkpatrick combining the 75 POWs from Fort Drum and the 240 Corregidor POWs into one work group. Over on page 5 it goes into details about Kirkpatrick's death. corregidor.proboards.com/thread/837/captured-on-corregidor?page=3Here is a link to his West Point obituary. Be sure to read the comments at the very bottom and see the photograph: apps.westpointaog.org/Memorials/Article/7435/Below is one of the few other work detail photos I am aware of. The POWs are moving a field gun for the Japanese. Phantom thinks it may have been taken on South Dock, looking west: The gallant Ed Dyess fought at Quinauan Point. I visited his very elderly mother, Hallie Dyess, in Albany TX during 1991 (she died the next year). Even then, it was still quite evident that she was terribly hurt by his early death. The next time I get to Burbank CA I will try to visit the site where he crashed in the P-38, at the corner of Olive and Myers. For more info, including photos from the accident report, see: corregidor.proboards.com/thread/622/ed-dyess-story
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Post by xray on Nov 26, 2014 20:32:03 GMT 8
Quinauan thats right, I stand corrected. Still could easily have crossed paths with any number of well known fighting men, twas history in the making though doubtless they didn't quite feel that way living in the moment.
I think a higher resolution forced labor photo exists, the photo of the newspaper pic appears much more detailed, for instance Bataan can apparently be seen in the background, in this pic it is just haze in the background. It is also tough to distinguish any faces, though the location of her grandfather can be reduced to a few individuals. So if anyone has any luck finding a clearer copy please post back.
On another note, Kristina managed to track down her grandfathers original POW medal, unfortunately the owner refuses to part with it or even send a picture of it. I won't say any more as she may wish to keep this private, but I as well as I'm sure everyone here find it hard to fathom such ,,, Whats the word ? Spiteful possessiveness maybe.
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Post by okla on Nov 27, 2014 0:40:22 GMT 8
Hey Xray...I have a word for it. Okay, two words, Horses Arse.
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Post by xray on Nov 28, 2014 9:53:46 GMT 8
It is very sad okla when a lady against all odds finds a priceless object of high sentimental value, an object that is really valuable to no one else but family, and this guy stubbornly refuses to part with it like it is some kind of crown jewel. Not only that he was downright rude and even insulting to her, I'd really like to ring this guys neck. I just hope karma bites him on the ass, couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
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Post by chadhill on Nov 30, 2014 10:34:29 GMT 8
Yes, after some searching around the 'net I came upon the postings this ass made on that military collector's forum.
This ass would not consider selling the medal to her (everyone here would give it to her if they could) and when she asked for just a simple photo of it he ignored her, finally saying "do not contact me anymore".
I posted a response to this pompous ass who ID'ed himself as a firefighter from NYC, saying only, "Firefighter, the descendants of this late World War Two combat Marine are trying to recover a precious family memory. Please do the right thing and return it to them", and signed my name. Within ten minutes my post was deleted, along with her most recent request to him. The ass's self-incriminating "do not contact me anymore" statement conveniently disappeared, too. The deletion was done by another "collector", one of the site's moderators. After some browsing around I realized they were buddies.
I have not felt such utter, pathetic disgust in a long, long time. This selfish bastard severely damages the reputations of honorable, respectable collectors everywhere.
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Post by okla on Dec 1, 2014 0:20:37 GMT 8
Hey Chad....Very well said. This guy is really a "piece of work". An "Excremento de la Gallino" comes, readily, to mind.
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Post by chadhill on Dec 1, 2014 10:19:36 GMT 8
I like your Spanish, ol' bud, and couldn't agree with you more (Patty interpreted the last word for me...but I swagged the first one all by myself).
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Post by okla on Dec 1, 2014 21:14:55 GMT 8
Hey Chad....I gotta admit that my "Tex-Mex" vocabulary is a bit limited due to being many decades removed from one of my former residences deep in South Texas (McAllen), but this disgusting incident rekindled my Espanol. It's been quite a long time since I have been this hacked off at some nameless, faceless individual. I sure as Hell ain't wishing him any "happy trails". The cartoon is priceless. Cheers.
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Post by xray on Dec 2, 2014 5:25:39 GMT 8
You said pretty much what I wanted to say Chad, but I have to watch my P's & Q's. I would have posted info on this pile of garbage but didn't feel it was my place, I am still steaming over the poor actions of this miscreant masquerading as a collector. Some day him or his heirs will put this up for grabs on ebay, the name will mean nothing to no one except kin, really sad some people have to be so pigheaded and shallow. Here it is, thread closed www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/172924-edward-hilton-howe-usmc-bataan/
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