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Post by xray on Dec 4, 2014 10:35:50 GMT 8
Would be interested to know, about what % of the complex was destroyed by the Japanese in 1945 ? A diagram would be nice, showing the destroyed laterals. Are they all pretty much on 1 level or are some lower/higher ? When in the tunnels today, is there a point where you can walk up to the exploded areas and say Ok, this is as far as I go, or is access cut off well in advance ?
Would sure be fascinating to excavate those tunnels, though obviously it would be very costly and dangerous. I imagine they would use mining/boring equipment and would have to shore up the tunnel as they go, and also be aware of unexploded ordinance and toxic air. They would also eventually get into a mass grave site so care would have to be taken as far as possible not to destroy remains.
Not that I think it would ever happen, doesn't hurt to speculate what would be involved though. I think about weird things when I get tired and ready to conk out, last night I was excavating the exploded tunnels before I went to sleep. I had a large conveyor system running down the length of the main tunnel to efficiently get rid of the majority of the fill, larger boulders would have to be fork lifted out. Was shying away from using any explosives for fear of causing even worse cave ins, I was pretty much shoring up, boring, shoring up, repeat. I imagine thats pretty much how they made the tunnels in the first place. Also considered boring a parallel tunnel to avoid the most damaged front sections, but of course my lack of mining experience is holding me back.
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Post by fots2 on Dec 7, 2014 10:46:11 GMT 8
Hi xray, I missed your post earlier so here is a quick reply. Here are some comments. I would think that any damage we see inside Malinta Tunnel was caused by the Japanese. The only exception would be damage to the SW air vent which was caused in 1945 by US troops trying to get them out of the tunnel. In 1942, the US and Filipino troops surrendered before fighting reached the tunnel so no interior damage happened at that time. The Malinta Navy tunnels were also heavily damaged by the Japanese. I could only guess at % of tunnel damage so I won’t. There are slight differences in elevation within Malinta Tunnel but it is all on one level. There are a couple areas in the Army and Navy tunnels where you come to a collapse but you can go further is you are curious/dumb enough to do so. I have been guilty of both. It is not unusual to see places in unlined tunnel where you see evidence of recent rock fall so it is unstable for sure. Excavating collapsed areas would be very dangerous. Other than very humid during the wet season and stale in places during the dry season, I have never had any air quality concerns in there. The tunnel system still has four functioning air vents plus the main East and West entrances. The North entrance has closed metal doors however there are vents in it too. Unexploded ordinance and human remains in collapsed tunnel is certainly a possibility. You asked for diagrams so if you have not seen it, here is a link to a Trip Report about the tunnel and photos of what it l looks like today. Start at “Part 3” on Page 2. Malinta Tunnel Trip Report
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Post by xray on Dec 9, 2014 10:38:35 GMT 8
Wow fots, I would have paid to see those pics and read the insight, I am evermore convinced that my life will not be complete until I visit the rock. So now my imaginary excavations will be more accurate ... I was not thinking about excavating collapsed tunnels per se, but rather boring a shored entrance past collapsed sections into intact but otherwise inaccessible sections.
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Post by fots2 on Dec 10, 2014 10:55:51 GMT 8
Hey xray, here is some info that is worthy of a few nights thought when you are ready to conk out. Malinta Tunnel explorers in the ‘80s and 90s drew sketches of laterals with one possibly containing torpedoes south of the QM tunnels. They are now completely collapsed. We will never see them again (unless you come up with a way to photograph your dreams). Have fun!
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Post by The Phantom on Dec 12, 2014 7:15:55 GMT 8
I agree with fots, any attempt to enter those collapsed tunnels would be folly now, unless it was to get the GOLD buried at the very,very end........
I must admit to having crawled though a large part of the south laterals in 2001, and walked those laterals north of the main tunnel. I had 2 flashlights but they were mostly ineffective due to all the black soot on the walls and floor from the fires and explosions. You had to feel your way over the crumbled walls and ceiling on the floor in the south laterals. I did crawl over cave-ins and went further in but I had the guard on duty in the Main tunnel take us though and back out. Lots of twists and turns on the south side of the main tunnel, as some laterals were completely caved in. The laterals on the north side of the main tunnel were mostly walkable, the hospital especially. Fots has seen more of Malinta tunnel and laterals than anyone I'd say. If anyone gets the chance to walk there you should do it.
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Post by oozlefinch on Dec 12, 2014 13:12:10 GMT 8
There's gold at the end of the tunnel? Let me at it. I did most of my Malinta Tunnel sleuthing back in '87 and '89, before they closed off the side laterals. I went through most of the main tunnel laterals, the QM laterals, and the main south system tunnel until I was crawling on my belly and finally chickened out, and turned around. One thing I would have liked to have had back then would have been a flashlight like we have today. Carrying a 9-v lantern just doesn't compare to the high lumen lights we're using today.
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Post by Registrar on Dec 12, 2014 15:34:54 GMT 8
The tunnel where the weak of spirit turn back is the QM tunnel, which extends to a 100% fall as it approaches the south road around Malinta Hill. Most turn back at the first major fall, where you have to climb several metres up a pile of shattered rocks which have fallen from the roof above. It has puzzled us for many years how far the 100% fall (which is a way further) actually is from the road, but (a) roots of trees grow from the roof, and (b) whistles and shouts by people on the road can be heard inside the tunnel. One has to get there through some dead air areas, and then crawl along on your back. There is nothing quite so scary as a dead air area when you know you can't run because you are on your back looking at the roof a few inches away. I would always keep my cigar lit so that I could be reassured the air was sufficient to move the smoke.
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Post by xray on Dec 13, 2014 8:24:32 GMT 8
If there was the will, finances and permission to do it, just about anything could be done ,,, But sure, its an unrealistic proposition to think it would ever be done. I'd be lucky just to set foot on the Rock much less excavate tunnels. Aren't there 100's of Japanese that blew themselves up in there, if so which tunnels were these, Navy ? Why did they close off the side laterals ?
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Post by Registrar on Dec 13, 2014 9:08:45 GMT 8
I doubt there are Japanese bodies remaining in Malinta Tunnel, as Japanese POW's were used to clear the tunnel post-war. This might be contentious, and I may well be wrong.
If there were Japanese remains on the island, I would imagine that they are in the Navy Intercept Tunnel at Monkey Point - but which has been so thoroughly blown, it may be there is not even the slightest thing surviving under all that collapsed rock and dirt.
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Post by rik on Dec 13, 2014 20:27:43 GMT 8
I did a private tour with Carlos Reyes a couple years ago and we were able to see quite a bit of the side tunnels. At one point we actually uncovered the remains of a human bone. There's definitely stuff to see down there. Every future trip will include an excursion into the tunnels, as long as we are able. There is also a danger of snakes down there too, a couple of times Carlos had to stop us so he could scout ahead and make sure we didn't inadvertently scare any snakes. Apparently they sometimes come across cobras down there.
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