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Post by Registrar on Apr 3, 2015 13:53:45 GMT 8
I have transferred this series of entries from the Forum Shoutbox into this thread, so that the issues raised can be permanently retained. (The shoutbox is a temporary message app which I wipe from time to time, keeping no record of its contents. - Registrar
John from Montana: Can anyone point me to the history of the Old Spanish flagpole. I know most sources attribute it to a Spanish ship sunk by Dewey in 1898. I'd like more details and proof of its history Ban Mar 25, 2015 at 3:17pm x
Popular myths exploded: To John from Montana. 100ft (temp) flagpole erected 1910, south-west of Parade Ground. Destroyed Nov 1923. 86ft flagpole erected Dec 1923, south-east corner of Parade Ground, at present location. Flagpole common with US Mainland CAC forts. Ban Mar 29, 2015 at 10:03am x
EXO: Kindly furnish reference for flagpole statement. So, if its a myth you are wanting to explode, start a thread, furnish us with the info that you have gathered, don't just make a bald, anonymous statement on a shoutbox. Ban Mar 31, 2015 at 10:08pm * x
batteryboy: The guns at Fort Wint, Grande Island were NEVER moved or dismantled them nor brought them to Bataan. The two 10-inch DC guns from Battery Warwick were brought to Fort Casey after the war. Japanese had their own heavy artillery. Ban yesterday at 10:52am x
batteryboy: Would love to know where the flagpole actually came from. So far the old story is that it came from the Reina Cristina sunk at Cavite during the Battle of Manila Bay. New evidence is welcome! Ban yesterday at 11:01am * x
Popular myths exploded: I was just a passing visitor who provided information for John from Montana's unanswered request. The information you seek is contained within Quartermaster Corps records of buildings and c1922 aerial photos available from NARA.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Apr 20, 2015 15:29:07 GMT 8
MAST ON SISTER SHIP REINA MERCEDES ALSO FROM 1998 I recently joined the Coastal Defense Study Group (CDSG) on a visit to Corregidor. I call them the “Coasties” affectingly and we have become friends. Glen Williford, a leader in that organization told batteryboy and I he would get back to us. He sent the below picture. X295. Mast on sister ship Reina Mercedes also from 1898. Glen said all this when he sent the image: “The mast on Reina Cristina. I do not have a good picture of the ship, but I do have one pretty well showing the mast on sister ship Reina Mercedes also from 1898. It does NOT match the type of construction shown on the flagpole at Mills. Again, that may still be an original from Christina, but her sister ship didn't have one like that”. Note from Karl: That ship must have been sunk in Cuba.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Apr 20, 2015 20:03:56 GMT 8
FLAG STAFF REPORTED COMPLETED DEC. 1923 ON FORT MILLS The copy and image from that report was provided by the Coastal Defense Study Group (CDSG). X296. The completion report (1923) about the flag staff on Fort Mills, Corregidor Island. X297. The image of the Fort Mills flag staff April 1924. This image was uploaded in high resolution! X297a. The high resolution image of the Fort Mills flag staff April 1924.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jun 20, 2015 21:37:26 GMT 8
SPANISH FLAG POLE ON CORREGIDOR A MYTH? TRANSFERRING THIS ONE PARAGRAPH FROM THE BELOW URL TO HERE! corregidor.proboards.com/thread/1353/corregidors-flag-poleThis is the paragraph from John1, a guest: Jul 17, 2012 at 5:19pm I work at the VA hospital at Ft William Henry Harrison in Helena Montana. The post flag pole is very unique and as such I have been trying to trace its history for a number of years. Recently I was reading a history of Corregidor and came across pictures of the Corregidor Island flag pole. It is identical to the one at FT Harrison. I have read that the Corregidor flag pole is the mast of a Spanish ship sunk in the Spanish American War. Can anyone provide more information as to the history of the Corregidor Island flag pole? FYI: The flag pole at Ft Harrison still has the ratline rigging (seen in pictures and video of the MacArthur flag raising ceremony from 2 March 1945) which is now missing from the Corregidor flag pole. Any assistance is much appreciated, Thanks, jjj Note from Karl: I think he got something! I wish he or others would be able to provide a picture of the flagpole at the VA hospital at Ft William Henry Harrison in Helena Montana. I have tried to find one and have not succeeded yet. I found this flag pole and it looks pretty much the same as the one on Corregidor: X606 the Flag pole on Fort Robinson, Nebraska. The picture came from this URL (It should be very interesting to cavalry friends): www.ferry360.com/FerryTrails/Launching_Noah/Launching_Noah/Entries/2011/9/8_Fort_Robinson_Nebraska.htmlX607 this is the plaque at the Old Flagstaff on Corregidor and it says it came from a Spanish ship. Based on what we presented here so far, the plaque could have it wrong!
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jun 20, 2015 21:39:50 GMT 8
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Post by beirutvet on Jun 21, 2015 5:15:38 GMT 8
Registrar and Karl
Thank you for consolidating all of these separate posts to one thread. This is a topic I feel needs its own thread,,,,, it certainly DESERVES one.
It is also a topic I have been interested in since my first visit to the island. On that visit the tour bus merely stopped at the base of the flagpole and briefly described it but did not allow anyone off the bus to take pictures. Being on the opposite side of the bus from the pole I only got a picture of the base of the flag pole. As we pulled away, I had the nagging feeling of being cheated out of something with significant historical value. Believe me, on my second trip there I did not let the opportunity slip by and spent over an hour in that area and got many pictures. The tours seem to vary in some respects as one will concentrate on something while another gives it short shrift. Luck of the draw I guess.
Another reason for my thanks is that I have done a little research on the web about the origins of the flag pole, did it in fact come from a defeated Spanish warship? I have researched for pictures of all the Spanish warships that were present at the battle of Manila Bay. The flagship Reina Cristina as well as the Don Antonio De Austria, Isla De Cuba, Isla De Luzon, Marques Del Duero and the Velasco were all there. There were also a number of smaller vessels but not of sufficient size as to warrant a mast the size of the one on Corregidor. Of these pictures, and believe me there were not a lot of them, the only one I can find that holds promise is in fact from the flagship Reina Cristina. I had heard in my travels, perhaps it was on that first visit, that the pole did indeed come from the flagship of the defeated Spanish fleet. I had come across a painting of the Reina Cristina and the aft mast does resemble the Corregidor flagpole in size and configuration. I say RESEMBLE because the painting is not large enough or in enough detail to make a definitive judgement.
I have tried online searches of the Spanish Naval Archives but to little avail. I had always planned on a return trip to Spain. Perhaps a visit to the archives in person can bare more fruit.
I would love to do more research on this but am not very skilled at this, I guess. Does anyone have any more ideas as to where some evidence of the flagpole's origin can be found? I do not mind doing the leg work on any ideas floated here for as with all of us on this site, this is considered a labor of love. And this topic (for the above stated reasons) holds a little more interest to me than just another flagpole. Besides, it is the flagstaff of a place of honor and is entitled to it's reverence.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jun 24, 2015 17:37:39 GMT 8
THE FORT SHAFTER FLAG POLE IN HAWAII This segment presents another flag pole that looks exactly like the one on Topside, Fort Mills, Corregidor Island. I am now really convinced that the flag pole on Corregidor DID NOT COME FROM A SPANISH SHIP! At this point I like to reemphasize that in my entry of the 20th June 2015 about the flag pole on Fort Robinson, Nebraska LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE ONE ON CORREGIDOR. Fort Shafter’s flag pole is a second generation one now but looks pretty much like the old one. We have the picture of the first one also. These pictures came from a Fort Shafter web page called: 5. CENTENNIAL PLAZA and this is the URL: www.usarpac.army.mil/tour05.aspA new album has been started to file in one place images about the Old Flagstaff on Corregidor as to whether it came from a Spanish ship; this is the URL: s74.photobucket.com/user/PI-Sailor/library/Corregidor%20by%20subject/Historical%20Corregidor/Old%20Flagstaff?sort=9&page=1or tinyurl.com/nafyupmHere are the 4 smaller copies: X637 this original flagpole on Fort Shafter was completed on 28 February 1908 at a cost of $511.67. It has since been rebuilt using the original design. Flagpole in Palm Circle, Fort Shafter, Hawaii (Photo between July 4, 1908 and July 3, 1912) X638 the Fort Shafter flag pole today, it is rebuilt using the original design; the whole surroundings sure remind at the Old Flagstaff, Topside on Corregidor! X639 was uploaded at a higher resolution and you should be able to zoom in or download it as a larger copy! The historical marker/plaque in Palm Circle, Fort Shafter, Hawaii sure gives us a lot of US Army history in the Pacific. This place has a close historical relationship with the Philippines. The plaque description is below here. The plaques in Centennial Plaza provide a snapshot of the important role that the Army has played in the Pacific Theater. They give a brief history of U.S. Army involvement in the Spanish-American War, the Boxer Rebellion in China (1900), the Philippine Insurrection, the Siberian Expedition (1918-1920), World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. X640 Palm Circle, Fort Shafter, Hawaii, it reminds me at the former Fort McKinley, then Fort Bonifacio, which is also gone now! Tripler Army Medical Center is visible in the background. Note: Fort Shafter is the Command Center of the US Army in the Pacific, Korea excluded. It is celebrating its 100 year Anniversary this year and you might want to look up their web page. It has a lot of history including US -Philippine history. This is their web page: www.army.mil/info/organization/unitsandcommands/commandstructure/usarpac/
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jul 5, 2015 20:09:13 GMT 8
FLAGSTAFF AT FORT WILLIAM HENRY HARRISON John1, a forum guest asked for information about the Corregidor Flagpole that it came from a Spanish ship sunk by Commodore Dewey, because he states it is identical to the one at FT Harrison. This is the paragraph from John1, a guest: Jul 17, 2012 at 5:19pm I work at the VA hospital at Ft William Henry Harrison in Helena Montana. The post flag pole is very unique and as such I have been trying to trace its history for a number of years. Recently I was reading a history of Corregidor and came across pictures of the Corregidor Island flag pole. It is identical to the one at FT Harrison. I have read that the Corregidor flag pole is the mast of a Spanish ship sunk in the Spanish American War. Can anyone provide more information as to the history of the Corregidor Island flag pole? FYI: The flag pole at Ft Harrison still has the ratline rigging (seen in pictures and video of the MacArthur flag raising ceremony from 2 March 1945) which is now missing from the Corregidor flag pole. Any assistance is much appreciated, Thanks, jjj I, Karl, believe that the Corregidor Flagstaff came from a Spanish ship is a myth and nobody seems to be able to document it that it came from the ship. On the contrary the flagstaff was a standard US Army design which was used on many US Army bases in the early 1900s as we are documenting in this forum. John1 did not provide any images for the Fort Harrison flagstaff so I searched. I found two, they are not the best quality and I am still searching for a better image for this flag pole. This URL provided the best image so far: www.helenahistory.org/fort_harrison.htmX676 the Fort Harrison Flagstaff from the above URL and it looks very similar like the one on Corregidor like John1 says! X677 this image came from a Montana web page and is very small but is a more recent image. It seems to show the VA Hospital with that very similar flagstaff still in use. I got to admit this is not a very clear picture. It would be nice if someone familiar with that Fort could provide us with a clearer and more recent image.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jul 15, 2015 20:08:16 GMT 8
THE MYTH OF THE CORREGIDOR SPANISH FLAGSTAFF CONTINUES In late Sep. 2011 the USS Dewey (DDG 105) held a flag raising ceremony on the former Ft. Mills on Corregidor Island. This is the URL: www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg105/Pages/DeweySailorsVisitHistoricalIsland.aspx#.VYdcXkCUzGcThis is the copied story from the above URL: SOUTH CHINA SEA – Sailors from the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Dewey (DDG 105) departed Manila, Republic of the Philippines, Thursday, after making a scheduled four-day port visit to the capital city. During the port visit, Sailors took a ferry to Corregidor Island; the largest of the islands that form the harbor defense of Manila Bay which were all fortified during the American occupation of the country. Within the largest part of the island, called Topside, is a historic flagpole which stands today as a mute testimonial to the glory and passion of the fortress of Corregidor. The flagpole was the mast of a Spanish warship, installed on the site by the American forces when they occupied Corregidor Island following the victory of the Asiatic Squadron, United States Navy, under Commodore George Dewey, over the Spanish fleet, under Admiral Patricio Montojo, in the Battle of Manila Bay on May 1, 1898. While visiting the island, Cmdr. John Howard, commanding officer of USS Dewey, and Cmdr. Evan Russell, executive officer of USS Dewey, conducted a flag-raising ceremony at the Topside flagpole, honoring both the Filipino and American colors. “That flagpole is the only surviving relic from the Spanish side of the war that I'm aware of,” said Russell. “It was part of a warship that was subject to one of the most lopsided victories in naval history. The mast survived the invasion of the Japanese when Corregidor was the second most bombarded island in the history of mankind.” On May 6, 1942, the American flag was hauled down from the flagpole when Filipino-American defenders of Corregidor gave in to the Japanese forces. Following the recapture of Corregidor by the American forces, Army Gen. Douglas MacArthur returned to Corregidor on March 2, 1945 and ordered the hoisting of the American flag, saying, “I see that old flagstaff still stands … Hoist the colors to its peak and let no enemy ever haul them down.” On October 12, 1947, in a ceremony signifying the reassignment of the authority of Corregidor to the Republic of the Philippines, the American flag was hauled down for the last time, and the Philippine flag was hoisted in its stead. More than 60-years later, a new ceremony began as Howard and Russell hoisted the Philippine flag, saluted the colors, and then hauled it down. They did the same with the American flag shortly after. “USS Dewey has a direct connection to Manila and the old Corregidor flagpole because of Admiral of the Navy George Dewey's decisive victory, and the sacrifices of those American's and Filipino's who fought side by side here during the war,” said Howard. “We are very fortunate to have had this opportunity to experience the significant history represented here.” “I am not aware of any 50-star U.S. Flags ever flying on that flagpole,” said Russell. “Corregidor was an exceptional experience for me. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would have the opportunity to … see something that has so much history from World War II and from this ship. I'm in awe.” The ceremony lasted approximately 30 minutes as Sailors from USS Dewey watched from across the street. “I was honored to be a part of that,” said Command Master Chief (SW/SCS) Joe Grgetich. “It had every one of us saying, under our breath, 'that's my ship and my crew. We did that..'” USS Dewey is deployed to the 7th Fleet area of responsibility conducting routine maritime security operations. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ X742 This information was sent to me by my old Shipmate Ted Beagles. Header Re-edited by Registrar.
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Post by Karl Welteke on Jul 22, 2015 13:57:44 GMT 8
ARMYJUNK SENT ANOTHER CORREGIDOR FLAGSTAFF LOOK-ALIKE. This is the 2nd time that ARMYJUNK (Coastal Defense Study Group, CDSG) led me to a Corregidor flagstaff look-alike. The last time it was from Ft. Shafter in Hawaii. This time it is from Fort Logan in Colorado. Thank you ARMYJUNK. There should be no more doubt that the present Corregidor flagstaff is a 1923 US Army standard construction flagstaff and is not a flagstaff that came from a Spanish warship as the plaque at the foot of the flagstaff on Corregidor says. It is obviously a mistake! Fort Logan Flagstaff URL: www.fortwiki.com/File:Fort_Logan_Flag.jpgFort Logan Period Flag Pole, photo by John Stanton 29 Sep. 2011. X802 Fort Logan Period Flag Pole, photo by John Stanton 29 Sep. 2011. X803 Fort Logan Period Flag Pole, photo by John Stanton 29 Sep. 2011, this is how the image was captured original.
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