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Post by okla on Sept 13, 2010 7:06:15 GMT 8
Hey Chad....If Fots hasn't found Lt Lawrence's 75s position it won't be found. He has been over every accessible inch (above and below ground) of Corregidor that a human being can reach and some areas that I truly believe that you can't. He and I exchanged a few remarks, sometime back, concerning the "tail" of Corregidor. I have long thought this very important part of the fortress has been overlooked by most folks. This very desolate, "spooky" region was the center of activity for several crucial hours way back in May 1942. Nothing there today to indicate that it was key to the fate of the defenders. Many historians (and Lt Lawrence) believe that, at least for a moment that fateful day, the Amer/Fil forces defending the tail had the upper hand, but the situation was misread by the brass in Malinta. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Sept 14, 2010 9:25:58 GMT 8
Okla, I totally agree with your comments. By chance, have you read Daniel Howell's "The Battle for Corregidor, December 1941-6 May 1942. The 4th Marine Regiment Hung Out to Dry"? It gives quite a different take on Wainwright's surrender decision from conventional history...not complimentary! Lots of new research (published 2003 in Manila). Howell found the Corregidor tunnel named after him on this website, was a curator of the Pacific War Memorial on Topside, and a USMC Vietnam vet. Although I'm not sure I agree with some of his conclusions, he has done his homework. An interesting read. It's hard to find but Cadman Books has it in stock now. 1-800-540-0053. $25 plus S&H. If you have read it okla, what did you think? From your posts throughout this website it is very apparent that you have studied Corregidor/Bataan in depth, and I respect and appreciate your comments. Chad
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Post by westernaus on Sept 14, 2010 9:51:08 GMT 8
Howdy chadhill Thanks for your contributions . I like a lot of the people who view this web site appreciate past and present photo's of corregidor island.
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Post by chadhill on Sept 14, 2010 11:14:59 GMT 8
Thanks, westernaus. I visited Perth and Fremantle in 1987 while deployed aboard the USS Constellation, and enjoyed it immensely. My wife and daughter flew down from Cubi Point, PI to join me. People were so friendly, the food was outstanding--and so were the adult beverages!
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Post by okla on Sept 14, 2010 21:52:18 GMT 8
Hey Chad....Thanks for your kind comments. Yes, I have been obsessed with the Corregidor/Bataan Campaign since it took place. I was 10 years old at the time and as a young newspaper deliverer, read the war news each and every day, listened to the latest news from the Pacific (especially) and Europe continually. Maybe that's the reason I majored in History,etc in college. I, certainly, am no authority on any phase of WW 2, but I do think I have a fair amount of knowledge on most stages on the conflict, but obviously I immersed myself in the 1941-42 Campaign in the Philippines. I have learned more from "wallowing" on this website, picking the brains of Battery Boy, Phantom, Vic (from the Scout forum) and especially Fots and his fabulous bonanza of photographs. Those pix bring it all to life. "PI Sailor" has also enlightened me to a maximum degree with his contributions. This site is a "gold mine" of info. I am sure I have missed listing other contributors, but you, by now, know who they are. As for the Daniel Howell book, no I have not read it, but intend to track it down. I read every scrap I can find on that long ago, tragic campaign. Like you, I probably won't agree with everything the author lays out in his work, but like to get all views. Having a former USMC bro in law, I would expect that this book will present a USMC opinion and so the reader will have to keep that in mind when reading it. The good Colonel Bunker certainly put an Army point of view on his take on the situation, continually knocking the Navy and Marines. Having not read the book I will try to keep an open mind, but the fact remains that we had the Japanese landing force outnumbered, probably not counting the Coast Artillery personnel, with just US Marines and units such as those of Lt Lawrence and his scouts. These units, though creating havoc with the landing barges, were not holding the invaders after they had climbed up from the beaches onto Kindley Field. Our defensive lines were being driven back to Denver Hill and when the word, "tanks are on the island" was received, it would appear, that our HQ folks in Malinta were under the impression that an armored regiment,etc was on the "rock". I think this one event was "key". I told Fots, sometime back, that our decision makers reacted as though Rommel was on the island with the whole Afrika Korps. This dead horse has been beaten to death, the end was inevitable, whether it was that day, or a few weeks or maybe even a month or two down the road. The Philippines were doomed from the "git go". I have rambled on too long. You see how "hung up" I am on this Campaign, even after all these years. Postscript....Speaking of adult beverages, I truly believe that Foster's beer is the best stuff I ever put in my mouth. A person can almost chew the beverage it is so heavy. Having missed my lone opportunity to get an assignment to Clark Field way back in 1953, I have never tasted San Miguel (except the import variety here in the states) I can't make an informed decision on that local brew. Haven't had drink since 1984 so I guess that phase of my life is kaput. Nice talking to you, although I have bent your ear to excess this fine morning. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Sept 15, 2010 11:07:06 GMT 8
Okla, I enjoyed Foster's ON TAP very much in Perth! Imagine being at sea for months with no adult beverages (and the USN is a DRY navy, unlike the Royal Navy). There's a reason for that old saying about drunken sailors.
I appreciated learning of your background interest in the Corregidor/Bataan campaigns. I, too, became interested in the Pacific War at an early age. Imagine my excitement when I learned I would be stationed in the Philippines, at the northern boundary of Bataan province. Unfortunately, I soon discovered that none of my fellow squadron mates cared anything about the area's history, or of WW2 in general. Flying, drinking and fornicating was all that mattered (and not necessarily in that order as you can guess). Not that I'm a saint, mind you, but my wife was there, kept an eye on me (!) and I had an avid interest in WW2 history. Then, family and career happened and 20 plus years passed....
I think you would enjoy the Howell book. It really brings to light information surrounding the surrender decision. He addresses things I've wondered about many times. For example, there is a whole chapter devoted to the Japanese tanks. I've sometimes read that Wainwright feared them because there were supposedly no anti-tank weapons on Corregidor. Howell found that the 4th Marines had twenty mobile 37mm guns with armor-piercing ammo. Two of the guns were deployed in USMC Sergeant Milton Englin's platoon on the final defensive line outside Malinta Tunnel on May 6. Englin stated that they had the armor-piercing rounds on hand...
Another interesting chapter is titled "Leadership Abilities of the Senior Officers on Corregidor". Howell addresses the pros and cons of various Army and Marine officers. Interesting post-war opinions of fellow officers are revealed. But the bottom line of the book is that the entire garrison surrendered to somewhere between 300-500 Japanese soldiers, who were probably nearly out of ammo. There is a question whether the ammo for the tanks had even been offloaded yet. Another question that dogs me is why, on an island of 11,000 plus Army troops, did the infantry reserve force mainly consist of several hundred Navy sailors? Yes, some of them had fought briefly at Longoskawayan Point on Bataan as provisional infantry, but they had had almost nil infantry training.
I guess there are questions that will haunt us for generations to come. I would have hated to be in Wainwright's shoes that morning. Perhaps, in the long run, his decision may have saved lives. But I've wondered also why MacArthur reportedly opposed his receiving the MOH. Maybe there is more to that story than we will ever know.
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Post by chadhill on Sept 15, 2010 11:35:13 GMT 8
I've read Lieutenant Ray Lawrence's 1963 letter to the Belote brothers. It is reproduced on another section of this fine website. A couple of observations: Lawrence said that his sector "started at the old Rifle Butt concrete wall approximately 250 yards from the end of the airstrip and continued to the tail of the island". Would this "old Rifle Butt concrete wall" be the concrete wall discussed in this thread? Would that be the "concrete rifle butts" shown in the map on page 163 of the Belote book? Lawrence says "My 75's were mounted on wheels and the tail piece was fixed to a circular railroad rail". He goes on: "All machine guns and 37mm were dug in about 25 feet above the shore line with logs and one foot of earth on a roof overhead". Has anybody found these remains?
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Post by okla on Sept 15, 2010 23:18:31 GMT 8
Hey Chad....I fully agree on the "questionable" decisions made prior to the Corregidor surrender. I want to give that "dead horse" a couple of more licks and I will let it rest for a while, although I will never bury it. I read in the distant past that there was a reason that the troops who manned the various Batteries, for the most part, were required to remain at their posts, even though the great majority of the heavier guns on "the Rock" were already knocked out. And yes, these soldiers were not trained for Infantry combat, but they were soldiers and qualified to fire .03 rifles and there were over 10,000 of them. By sheer numbers they could have surely "swamped" the Japanese landing force which was by then numbered at less than 500 battle worthy troops. There is definitely good reason to believe that we ran up the white flag prematurely. I will say again, the end was inevitable defeat for the Amer/Fil defenders and as you said,"lives were saved in the long run",etc, but the way it played out just goes against the grain, so to speak. Anyhow, I have beat the "dead horse" once again, but it won't be the last time. Postscript...You spoke of the guys you were stationed with who didn't give "a hoot in hell" as to where they were at and what had taken place only short miles south of their station. I had a very good friend while in college who was a CB, stationed at Olongapo. He was there 36 months and not one time did he venture down into Bataan or go to Corregidor. He did exactly as your buddies did, lived in the bars, consorted with the chicks, drowned in San Miguel,etc. He had about as much sense of history as a palm tree. Like you, I certainly did my time on R&R in Tokyo indulging in "fun and games", but if I had been in the PI instead of Korea you can bet that this guy would have worn out my welcome trudging about Corregidor and the peninsula. Back in the early 1950s getting to the "Rock",etc probably wasn't as easy as in later years, but I would have managed somehow and I wouldn't have settled for just one trip. One more thing, you talked about weeks at sea with no adult beverages. I almost went nuts during my two week run from Frisco to Yokohama on a troopship (and return). I don't know how you guys stood it. Of course, on a larger vessel, such as a CV, BB, or CA there is much more room, but none the less methinks I would have lost my mind. An older friend of mine was on the "Big E" during WW 2 and I have forgotten how many weeks (months maybe) he said they were at sea and never even saw an atoll, let alone a larger island such as Guam, Saipain,etc. One time they pulled into Ulithi and were taken ashore in small groups for two hot beers each (he said in these instances one quickly made friends with tee totalers and the chaplains assistant) and then ferried back to the ship. Again, I have babbled too long. Take care, ya hear.
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Post by fots2 on Dec 7, 2010 16:41:31 GMT 8
Hi okla, A few days ago I walked from Kindley Field all the way to the eastern tip of Corregidor. The tide was low enough for me to walk over to Razor Island and get to Hooker Point. On the way, I finally found a tombstone for you. The top left corner is broken so the first of three letters cannot be determined exactly. It is similar to a “D”. Text on the Tombstone: D? O M D CANOY DIED JUNE 4 ‘33 AGE 85 Anyone know what “? O M’ on the top would be?
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Post by okla on Dec 7, 2010 23:29:03 GMT 8
Hey Fots....Being Catholic I immediately thought that this might be a Latin abbreviation. Maybe something akin to " Our Mother (Mary). Just a thought and it probably ain't even close. Call it a highly uneducated guess. Another thought crossed my mind when I learn that you have been, once again, running amok on Corregidor. This thought is....when do you expect your better half to serve you with divorce papers for desertion? Seriously, these forlorn gravestones, way out on the tip of Corregidor are rather sad to me. People long gone and forgotten who were actual living, loved, and respected human beings at one time, totally forgotten. Depressing.
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