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Post by victor on Jan 11, 2011 11:36:22 GMT 8
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Post by chadhill on Jan 13, 2011 13:41:29 GMT 8
Really incredible footage, Victor. And in color. What a find! There are some extremely rare views of Boyd "Buzz" Wagner there, CO of the 17th Pursuit Squadron. After returning stateside, Wagner was killed in the crash of a P-40K on 29 NOV 42, near Eglin. Six weeks later the crash site was found with some of his remains. In a curious note, more remains were found at the long lost site by retired AF Colonel Jim Moschgat in 2008. I'm not sure, but it looks like Russel Church may be in the background in one or two of those reels. He was KIA on 12/16/41 over Vigan. An historian such as William Bartsch should see these films.
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Post by okla on Jan 13, 2011 23:52:23 GMT 8
Hey Chad....Reading your post about how tragically Buzz Wagner was killed in a flying accident after surviving those harrowing days in combat with the Japs over Luzon reminded me of Capt Joe McConnell, Korean Jet Ace (16 Mig 15 kills) dying in the same manner. After all his success as a Jet Fighter Pilot he is taken out in an accident very similar to Boyd Wagner. I was assigned to the 51st Fighter Interceptor Wing at Suwon, Korea during the time of Joe McConnell's exploits. He and Lt (maybe Captain) Fernandez, of the 4th FIW, at Kimpo AFB, near Seoul, were rivals as to who would be the "top gun", so to speak. Fernandez finished with 14 kills, during two tours of duty. Joe McConnell, our guy at the 51st, totaled 16 downed MIGS in ONE tour. We watched the daily totals much as you would watch a baseball scoreboard today. Working in the Wing Ops/Intel Section, put me pretty close to the goings on, although I was just a Buck Sergeant at the time. I was much like the proverbial "fly on the wall". I heard and saw a lot that many of the other enlisted guys weren't privy to. Being one of only two enlisted types in the whole wing (not referring to Crypto people) who had a Top Secret Clearance allowed me to see and hear a lot of very interesting things,etc This was so long ago, but I think about those times each and every day. Cheers
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Post by chadhill on Jan 14, 2011 9:02:34 GMT 8
That's interesting, Okla. When I was a kid one of my favorite movies was "Sabre Jet Ace" starring Alan Ladd ("Shane" was another, BTW).
A slight change of subject, since you mentioned clearances. Was there a message traffic classification of "WAROPS SECRET" in your days? There was not in my USN days (1980s). Some of those CAST related messages in "Intercept Station C" are stamped that. Would it be somewhere between SECRET and TOP SECRET, then?
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Post by okla on Jan 14, 2011 22:59:10 GMT 8
Hey Chad...The clearance classifications when I served (1951-55) were..."Restricted, Confidential, Secret and Top Secret" as far as I know. Crypto was a a different thing and who knows what other clearances,etc were in use within that area. My very best friend from High School was a Crypto Operator in the USAF at the time (we entered the service together), serving down at Taegu, South Korea and to this day he never has told me the workings of his craft. How close lipped can you get??? I worked with material that came out of the Crypto "shack", but wasn't authorized to enter said domain. It was a kind of ridiculous setup. Each morning I usually went to Crypto, knocked on the little window, ala a Chicago "speakeasy", a guy who I very well may have been drinking beer with the night before, would peer out the little opening (he was always armed with a .45, plus they had a Thompson submachine gun inside their sanctum), ask for ID before passing me the stuff that I would sift thru, before giving it to the G-2 for more sifting and a final, condensed summary that went to Colonel Mitchell, the Wing Commander (also the officer who led the Yamamoto ambush in 1943) for his perusal. Most days it was just routine, but the security ritual was kinda amusing. I am sure that the enlisted Crypto guys I dealt with thought the same thing, but had to follow these rites since there was an Officer watching their performance within the "shack". That WAROPS SECRET classification would surely have applied to the 5th Air Force Emergency War Plan. The primary reason I had a Top Secret Clearance was because I was the guy, at the time, who posted all changes to this document, each and every time a change came down from FEAF in Tokyo or Fifth AF in Seoul. If they even altered the course a mission was to be flown by only one degree, the whole page dealing with that particular mission had to be deleted, certificate of destruction prepared, signed by the G-3 Operations Deputy,etc and a 2nd Lieutenant and I would stand outside, even in the middle of a freezing Korean winter day, and burn said obsolete page of this Top Secret material. This Emergency War Plan was the mission(s ) that my outfit would follow, within Fifth AF, in the event of a "big War" with Russia or an expanded conflict with the ongoing, at the time, fracas with Red China. I gotta admit it was interesting work. As I said before, there I was, a 20 year kid from Oklahoma, wearing only 3 stripes (a rocker came later), with something like the Top Secret 5th Air Force Emergency War Plan, and other stuff, daily in my hot little, "hill billy" hands. Even at this late date, it kinda gives me the chills thinking about it. I have rambled too long. You ask a simple question and I take off on another tangent. Is this another symptom of senility??? Cheers. I always enjoy kibitzing with you.
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Post by chadhill on Jan 16, 2011 13:40:35 GMT 8
It's amazing, Okla, how little things changed from the 50s to the 80s. I was a squadron assistant comm o for a short while and remember that things were still handled then as you described them in your time!
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Post by okla on Jan 16, 2011 23:22:33 GMT 8
Hey Chad....Maybe it's another example of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Feb 7, 2011 17:28:59 GMT 8
Rare color photo of B-17C. 1938 photo of then 23 year old 2nd Lieutenant Colin P. Kelly, Jr.
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Post by okla on Feb 8, 2011 4:46:45 GMT 8
Hey Chad....The photo of Lt Colin Kelly brought to my mind a memory that you might find interesting. When I returned from Korea in July 1953 I was assigned to Wolters AFB Texas. I served in the Operations Section and the Director of said section was a full Colonel and only 38 years old. He was a non flying officer, but a really sharp, well liked officer, but the thing that really impressed me was the fact that he was Colin Kelly's room mate at West Point. I don't know/ remember how many years they were "bunkies", but I found it most interesting since, even then, I was a "junkie" when it came to the 1942 PI Campaign. Also, a tidbit that I will pass along....during JFK's term in Washington, I was viewing a newscast where the President was giving a briefing on some military event (Berlin Wall? ) and standing immediately behind JFK was this same Colonel, only this time he was sporting two stars of a Major General on his shoulder epaulets. More confirmation that he had something "on the ball". He attempted to get me to re-enlist (as he did all his NCOs who were approaching discharge). I often wonder, if maybe, I should have done so. Just thought you might find this little yarn of some interest. Cheers
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Post by chadhill on Feb 8, 2011 12:05:13 GMT 8
Interesting story, Okla. I've not had a "connection", so to speak, that ever went that high, but I've certainly wondered whether I should have stayed in the service, also.
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