|
Post by EXO on Dec 23, 2010 12:22:27 GMT 8
Agreed. More likely than not, the wall of caves is 4th Marines. Ditto IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Dec 23, 2010 15:31:17 GMT 8
No ditto. Can’t agree with you guys on this one. - Very few of the tunnels interiors are Caucasian size. Adults can barely squeeze through them and they surely could not carry equipment. - Tunnel floors can fill up with rubble over the years but the narrow walls did not shrink. These tunnels were constructed small. - Only a couple have any sort of room inside. - At least two of the tunnels have three inter-connected entrances and no interior room. They just look like ambush positions along the road. - These tunnels are not near the beach. They are along a road at the top west of the ravine. They are in direct view of Japanese artillery across the bay in Ternate, Cavite. (look at a map). Marines would be sitting ducks up there. Since the tunnels were not blasted out of existence suggests that they may have been constructed after the 1942 surrender (i.e. by the Japanese). - There are plenty of steep embankments down at beach level to construct such tunnels. Why go so far away from their positions for shelter? Imagine how long it would take to scramble up here during a raid. Minutes for sure!!! The marines were in the area for a few months and may have dug one or two for some reason but I can’t see the majority being made by them. As EXO suggests, the Japanese may have evacuated this location before a battle could take place here in 1945. The damage I see today appears to be done by time. A question for you both. Why do you think that marines on beach defense would construct their bomb-proof shelters 700 to 1200 feet from their beach positions and approximately 300 feet above them? This tunnel is not much wider than my shoulders and I can walk in here only by bending over at the waist. It opens to the cliff face about 20 feet above the road. Straight ahead is a bend in the road 150 feet away so this is a perfect spot to ambush your enemy. Bomb-proof shelter? Don’t think so. This photo gives you an idea how far above the beach the tunnels are located. I am standing on the side of the road looking easterly towards Bottomside and Malinta Hill. Some of the tunnels are directly behind me. As usual, IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by EXO on Dec 23, 2010 16:45:01 GMT 8
A defensive position - even one overlooking a beach - is not a single line, it has depth. Defensive lines can be miles in depth - on an island, though, scale this down.
Heavier MG's are not placed forward. Nor are mortars.
Supplies (ordnance) are not kept in the open, but must be placed in a bomb-or artillery proof.
So why not keep the ordnance stores there?
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Dec 23, 2010 17:07:24 GMT 8
I agree with what you say about a defensive position “in general terms” but we are talking about one specific ravine.
Government Ravine had a ready-made defensive line along this beach twenty years before the marines arrived. (concrete trench lines, siege gun positions, machine gun positions, field gun positions – VI-M-2, VI-S-2, V-S-1, VI-F-4, VI-M-5). Wouldn’t they use them?
Would you set up mortars and machine guns on a hillside hundreds of feet inland to shoot directly over their heads at an enemy only dozens of feet away on the beaches. Remember the photo posted recently that is probably very close to here. Marines are manning beach positions yards from the water.
Second, where have you seen storage facilities in these tunnels? They are mostly “rat holes”.
Good ideas EXO, keep them coming.
|
|
|
Post by armyjunk on Dec 24, 2010 1:36:02 GMT 8
This was Headquarters and Service Companies 4th Marines not beach defense troops, this was a bivouac area where they were being held in reserve until needed.
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Dec 24, 2010 2:06:03 GMT 8
In view of Cavite guns, along a road near the top of the steep ravine, small tunnels, virtually no storage or shelter space, living ‘minutes’ away from their shelters, ideal hillsides down in the ravine where the troops could have dug shelters close to their bivouacs!!!
Marines may have dug a couple of these tunnels but the majority, I doubt it. We’ll just disagree on this one.
Merry Christmas everyone.
|
|
|
Post by armyjunk on Dec 24, 2010 4:25:13 GMT 8
at what date did the Japanese start shelling from Cavite? I too lazy to look that up, anyone know off the top of your head? 26 December the Marines started coming to Corregidor.
|
|
|
Post by okla on Dec 24, 2010 6:32:19 GMT 8
Hey Army...According to the Belote Brothers, "Major Kondo opened up with shelling at 8 a.m., February 6, 1942 with his 4 100mm (4 inch) guns". The bigger stuff followed. I have long been under the impression that there was a plan for a stateside US Army Infantry Regiment to be stationed in Cavite Province. If that additional regiment had arrived from the states and occupied portions of Cavite , maybe Corregidor would have been spared much grief, although the ultimate result was inevitable. I just wish I could remember where I read about that absent regiment. I might be hallucinating. but I think not. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by armyjunk on Dec 24, 2010 10:19:27 GMT 8
Thank you, that works out pretty well. Have a great christmas..
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Dec 24, 2010 17:16:06 GMT 8
You too armyjunk.
I think I'll visit the Wall of Caves again soon. I have not been there for a year or two.
|
|