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Post by westernaus on Jan 13, 2011 10:33:24 GMT 8
Howdy there all, Okla regarding the range of the PBY Catalina . There was one PBY that flew for 38 hours from Perth Western Australia to Ceylon ( Shri Lanka ) . They weren't USN ships but some type of Australian - British operation flying diplomats, generals and spooks to both points. It was a separate operation and did not usually liase with USN operations as these five black in color Catalinas were unarmed and carried limited cargo and extra fuel. Their usual endurance was 33 hours flight . The one that made the record flight had flown into a Cyclone ( Hurricane ) and did not alter track flying right through the eyeball of the cyclone which slowed its progress down , they landed in Ceylon with almost dry fuel tanks. Regards all
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Post by EXO on Jan 13, 2011 20:15:18 GMT 8
How curious! Only today I was rereading "They Were Expendable" by W. L. White, Essentially it is in the form of an interview with four officers of the five of MTB Squadron Three who managed to get out of the Philippines before the curtain fell.
They were Lt. John Bulkeley, Lt. Robert Bolling Kelly, Ensign Anthony Akeers, Ensign George E. Cox. Part of the book deals with Kelly's love interest, a "Peggy" -- whose surname isn't mentioned.
I see a Peggy OtNeil (typo for O'Neil?) is listed on the passenger list.
The book does explain that there were lists drawn up for evacuations, and when there was a "no show", those next on the list were included in the flights out.
I do not think that there was much prospect of any cryptographer being allowed into a position where it was even conceivable they could be captured alive. That's certainly what Whitlock says.
(I have actually been rather pleased to have gotten permission from the Naval War College, the NCVA and Whitlock personally to gather a few of the crucial articles on the website.)
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Post by EXO on Jan 13, 2011 21:08:33 GMT 8
I have been lucky to have a few flights in the PBY, and during one of those flights was in the "bubble" when we buzzed Eagle Farm (the old Brisbane airfield) at a normally impermissible height.
This was the result of an arrangement between the control tower -- which gave the PBY a clearance to land, and the pilot -- who, immediately prior to touchdown, then declared an abort. There was a crowd out there to see the Cat.
The Cat was subsequently lost in the US in 1984 when they were doing a photo-shoot and the aircraft touched the water -- it may have hit an underwater obstacle, but the nose-wheel door collapsed, plowing the aircraft into a cartwheel at 106mph. Seven were killed, there were two survivors.
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Post by westernaus on Jan 13, 2011 22:20:33 GMT 8
Gee you were lucky enough to have some flights in a PBY EXO. The closest I got was to have my photo taken sitting on the wing as a youngster, when one pulled in and moored at the Como Jetty in the Swan River Perth . My Father who was in the RAAF flew down twice from New Guinea in a PBY Cat to Perth Waters. During WW2.
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Post by okla on Jan 13, 2011 23:32:15 GMT 8
Hey EXO....Not that it makes a lick of difference, but I have for many years been under the impression that Army Nurse Beulah "Peggy" Greenwalt was the "love interest" of Lt Kelly. She was taken prisoner when Corregidor surrendered. Lt Greenwalt, Seattle, Washington, is shown in the famous Japanese propaganda photo of several of the captured nurses, supposedly taken shortly after the capitulation. She is the dark haired, attractive, girl in the center of the group. There was a Eleanor "Peg" O'Neil, who was evidently in her 40s or 50s, that Head Nurse Maude Davidson had picked to leave due to her age (along with some other "older" women), but O'Neil is listed as being one of the Nurses who was taken prisoner and was held at Santo Tomas. There was another of the Corregidor/Bataan "Angels, Madelein Ullom, from O'Neil, Nebraska. The name of her hometown might have added to the confusion on who was on lists and who wasn't. I find it rather interesting how the subject of Corregidor (and Bataan) can and often leads to some of us "Geeks" being caught up in minute details such as who Kelly's" love interest" might have been. Maybe it's just me. Cheers.
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Post by EXO on Jan 14, 2011 6:39:54 GMT 8
Okla, I bow to your interest in this. I wasn't going beyond the coincidence of "Peggy."
Curiously, I ended up with Madeline Ullom's copy of "The Return to Corregidor" autographed by Col. George Jones.
Never thought much of it at the time, except how the purchase price stung me. (Will sell at cost if anyone PM's me.)
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Post by chadhill on Jan 14, 2011 8:30:23 GMT 8
Okla, you got me thinking about the USS Spearfish (SS-190) which snuck into Corregidor the night of May 3rd. Here are entries from the war patrol report for May 1-4. See page 2 below. None of the naval officers on the Spearfish passenger list appear on the "Intercept Station C" personnel roster. CDR Deewall was the CO of Cavite Navy Yard, CDR Sackett was the CO of the USS Canopus, and LCDR Knoll was OIC of Weather Central at Cavite. I haven't found the billets of the other naval officers. As for the army officers, COL Savage was the Air Operations Officer, COL Doyle was CO of the 41st Infantry (Bataan), COL Irwin was Wainwright's Operations Officer, COL Hill was the Inspector General, COL Jenks was the USFIP Finance Officer, and I haven't found COL Ramsey's billet. There were 12 nurses, 1 navy and 11 army. * * * * * * * * * * * "General Wainwright's Story" was published in 1946 by Doubleday. Wainwright obtained a copyright for it in 1945. When he wrote the book, his ordeal at Corregidor had been in the recent past, and it should have still been fresh on his mind. His quote concerning MacArthur's request about passengers for the April 29th PBY mission puzzles me even more now: "MACARTHUR ALSO ASKED FOR, AND GOT, SEVERAL CRYPTOGRAPHERS". If the cryptographers were all evacuated from Corregidor by April 8th, who was Wainwright talking about? After reading Pollock's and Messimer's account of the PBY mission, I was struck by how terribly risky and dangerous it was. Extremely so. And, it was all arranged in order to evacuate who? Less than two dozen of the remaining 150 nurses in Malinta Tunnel, a few mid-grade officers and Colonel Wood? I'm scratching my head trying to justify that. When the last group of CAST personnel evacuated on April 8th, what else was going on with the USN in this part of the world? On April 2nd, Task Force 18 had left Alameda, led by the USS Hornet carrying the sixteen B-25 Doolittle bombers. A few days later, they joined up with Task Force 16 and the USS Enterprise, and headed towards Tokyo. The Saratoga was in Bremerton going through repairs, and the Lexington was being overhauled at Pearl Harbor until April 15th. That left the USS Yorktown patrolling with Task Force 17 in the Coral Sea area. It was a very precarious situation to be in. Much was at stake in the Doolittle raid, an expedition that risked two carriers for an attack with little military strategic value. The Battle of the Coral Sea was right around the corner on May 7th. In such a situation, would it make much sense to completely abandon your most advanced listening post? At least not until the last possible moment. Maybe Wainwright just had an innocent, truthful, slip of the tongue in 1946 when he let it be known that some cryptographers still remained on Corregidor as late as April 29th. Why would public knowledge about that have mattered? To some it would have indicated that at that point in time, April 1942, the US could actually read more of JN-25 than has been admitted, and kept some cryptographers on Corregidor until the last moment to do so. And then someone would connect the dots to FDR knowing in advance about the Pearl Harbor attack, etc.... Really, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, not being a conspiracy, revisionist type. Hey, that's what forums are all about, right?
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Post by okla on Jan 14, 2011 8:44:33 GMT 8
Hey Chad....You obviously are an expert in researching obscure facts. Without peer, it would seem. There have been times that I wish I had your patience,etc in this type endeavor. I always, as I have oft stated, enjoy your contributions. They sure as h**l surpass my simple "kibitzing" and limited contributions that possess little real substance. Keep it up. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Jan 14, 2011 15:51:42 GMT 8
Your kibitzing is always thoughtful and full of insights, Okla. You often mention things I've not heard before, or forgotten. I hope I can be as smart when I am 78! You are a history buff of the same period that I treasure, too. Being older, you were more in touch with the veterans of those times. Like my late father, you were a Korean War veteran and had experiences of your own. Because you were right behind the WW2 veterans in age, you were closer to them. I value your comments and always look forward to them. This is from the # 2 war patrol report of the USS Seadragon (SS-194) which evacuated the final group of CAST personnel on April 8th. At 2125 it notes only that 21 passengers were brought aboard: And this narrative, at the bottom of the third paragraph, only mentions that "communications officers, 18 enlisted men and an Army Colonel" were brought aboard. According to "Intercept Station C", the communications officers were LT John Lietwiler, LT Rufus Taylor and ENS Ralph Cook. Lietwiler was one of 36 known personnel authorized to read decoded Japanese diplomatic and military messages. Taylor was a highly specialized Japanese translator. There were 18 USN enlisted personnel evacuated. The army officer was Colonel G.S. Clarke. Apparently a navy stowaway turned up, bringing the total to 23 for a small discrepancy.
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Post by okla on Jan 14, 2011 22:21:58 GMT 8
Hey Chad...More good stuff. This should, I would think, about have all the "Crypto Personnel" off the "Rock" and safely on their way to safety and clear of Japanese captivity. I wonder if the enemy knew what they had when Colonel Stewart Wood was snared in their net along with the nurses??? I realize that he was no main cog in the CAST scheme of things, but he was a valuable person since he was so fluent in the language of the Emperor. I am sure he was privy to things that Japanese G-2 would find interesting. Postscript...Thanks for the kind words.
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