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Post by westernaus on Jan 29, 2011 9:06:52 GMT 8
Thats the great thing about this site Fots . The people who are interested in putting all this Corregidor puzzle together sure would make good crime scene detectives , there wouldnt be too many unsolved crimes around the world . We have EXO to thank for all the hard work to get this site to where it is . Keep it coming Fots. Regards
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Post by okla on Jan 29, 2011 9:50:03 GMT 8
Hey West Aussie, No truer words could you speak. I have told EXO that if this website passed away that there would be a hell of a void in my days (and nights), plus I would miss shooting the BS with all the great folks who partake of this forum. If I had been told 30 years ago that I would, on a regular basis, be talking to people in the Philippines, Australia, UK, and various places in the ZI, I would have turned said person into the little men wearing white coats and carrying butterfly nets. Cheers.
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Post by The Phantom on Oct 23, 2011 22:19:08 GMT 8
Another what are these?
Sorry no photo, just a description.
I have found several copper/brass? ammunition clips on Corregidor over the years, but mostly along north shore road from Enlisted Man's Beach east to the old Officers Qt-rs where Quezon, Mac Arthur, and Sayre had an abode for a time in 1942.
2 or 3 on the lower east road heading west going up to the top of Malinta Hill.
I found 2 in the concrete bunker behind Officers Row on Tailside.
There were 3 or 4 on the upper hillside of the location formerly known as Goal Post Ridge.
3 others were found at the foot of that hillside by the road, 15 ft in from the road, based on location and terrain, not due to the road construction pushing them there.
I have found 2 in the surf on Black Beach recently.
That many in one area after all these years speaks of a lot of fighting in that area.
Which rifle were they from?
They are about 2 to 3 inches long with grooved sides (5 or 6?) bullets might fit in, and maybe 3/4 inches wide.
I was watching a program on rifles of WWII and they talked about the 1903 Springfield being used in the Philippines early on.......that the Springfield 1903 rifle was still in use up to the Vietnam war, used by snipers because of it's accuracy and durability.
The M1 Garand was the main rifle of WW II I know, but the clip I saw flying out of that rifle on the History Channel Special didn't look much like the ones I have found. (I have found many inadequacies in History Channel programs and gross generalizations.)
If the clips are from the 1903 Springfield it opens up questions about the fighting in that area in 1942. If from the Garland it traces the fighting in 1945.
A little help please.
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Post by okla on Oct 23, 2011 23:02:04 GMT 8
Hey Phantom....If, indeed, the clips you found in the surf at Black Beach were from .03 rifles, that does pose a intriguing question. We know that no 1942 fighting took place at that location. But if you found two clips, I betcha there are more strewn around the area. Hard to believe that you turned up the only two that were discarded at the beach. I wonder if, maybe, many of the defenders "shucked" their ammo and disabled their small arms at whatever position they occupied. when word came that the white flag was being run up. These artifacts found on Malinta's slopes, along the north shore,etc can be explained away, but that Black Beach thing has cranked up my over active imagination, once again. Of course if these clips are from Garands, they would be all over the Island. I love this kind of stuff. Cheers.
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Post by The Phantom on Oct 25, 2011 2:09:52 GMT 8
I know Okla, need to know.
Maybe someone has pictures of both out there, that would surely help.
(2 games apiece, good stuff!)
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Post by armyjunk on Oct 25, 2011 3:09:41 GMT 8
.30 cal stripper clip M1 Garand clip
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Post by The Phantom on Oct 25, 2011 4:37:21 GMT 8
Thanks Army for the definitive examples. They could never be confused.
So the first clip, which is exactly like the type I have described above, are from the Springfield 1903?
If so, I have found them in some unusual places for fighting in 1942. I have talked to others who have also found the first clip you show, the Springfield 1903 on Corregidor.
I have never found an example of the second clip anywhere on Corregidor. I'm wondering if the second example, the M1 Garand clip, was made of steel and all have long ago rusted into oblivion.
I want to look for more of the Springfield 1903 clips in the Battery Denver and Battery Maxwell Keys 1942 fighting locations. I'm thinking they were made of copper as some are green from oxidation.
Again thanks for clearing this up Army.
I know that Corregidor was used by the Philippine Government (and U.S.?) for military maneuvers after World War II, could those infantrymen have been using the 1903 Springfield's?
The Philippine Navy still "invades" Black Beach on occasion on maneuvers also.
I have also found live blank rounds on Bottomside and on Topside. For gun salutes I imagine but shot out of which type of gun?
And have found a Spanish lead musket ball in the vicinity of the old Spanish fort.
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Post by armyjunk on Oct 25, 2011 6:27:46 GMT 8
I have never found an example of the second clip anywhere on Corregidor. I'm wondering if the second example, the M1 Garand clip, was made of steel and all have long ago rusted into oblivion.
Garand clips are steel, how long are the blank rounds, I have some 5.56 that are around 1 7/8" I might have picked them up on Corregidor, I don't remember. I should add we had one friend arrested for rusted rounds in his luggage at the airport and another arrested for a live round in his pocket. Might want to be very carefull about what you pick up and try to bring through the airport anymore.
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Post by The Phantom on Oct 26, 2011 4:17:53 GMT 8
Army, your friends didn't have live 30 and 45 caliber ammo in their suitcases, or pockets did they? A few years ago?
If so I plead the 5th.............
A few years ago, I found some rock lined fox holes on the former trolley tracks, just in front of Middleside Officers Qt-rs, and above Middleside Barracks.
The trolley grade hillside in front of the fox holes was strewn with live ammo, 30 caliber, (10) and 45's, (8). The 45's were very corroded, 30's not so much.
Also radio parts, and SPENT 30 caliber ammo, (15) and 50 caliber,(8). Fired at the location in 1942 or 1945?
These were all just laying on top of the ground on the hillside from top to bottom, over 40 square yards.
(There is presently an 8 inch LIVE shell stuck in this same hillside.)
I had mentioned this area as historic to someone on the island and now it is all dug up..............
At any rate I have never taken live ammo off Corregidor. Those that I found that day I gave to someone at the Hotel. I did later hear that someone had had an issue with some of "them?" at the airport..............not who or what had happened.
They were amazing, and a part of history, but live ammo is not to be trifled with, after 60 years in the tropics?
Most things I turn in to hotel staff, some to the office by the North Dock.
There was also a Japanese Gun bolt on that same hillside, just out side one of the foxholes on the edge of the trolley hillside/grade. What do you make of that?
With all the live ammo strewn on the hillside, I had previously wondered aloud on this site, if maybe it was a surrender site from 1942 when all guns and ammo were to be destroyed by the Americans and Filipinos.
Exploring the area immediately above this location is where I got my hand stabbed by a machete cut branch that put me in the hospital and almost cost me my hand/life. Don't go in the jungle after a rain without gloves on!
You can't even bring home the blood stones from Corregidor anymore. I had brought some home and given them to the 503rd veterans and their families at their reunions a few years ago.
One touching occasion happened a few years ago when I was giving out the few stones I had, when an older woman came up to me crying and saying,
" My husband was in the 503rd but he has died, can I still get a stone for his grandson ?" "Yes of course Mam," she got the last stone.
So not even stones get on planes now.
What happened to those fellas if I may ask Army?
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Post by armyjunk on Oct 26, 2011 23:24:40 GMT 8
One of the guys was released to the custody of the US Marshall that was flying with us, he had the rusted shell casings. The other guy with a live round was held in custody of the Philippine police for 3 days, then the US embassy sprung him. NO fine or anything, but had to pay for changing his plane ticket. The police were very nice to him, even took him out to eat with them. This is my understanding of what happened, hardly worth the trouble of having a few pieces of metal on a shelf.
I carried a 3inch round through the airport and got as far as Hong Kong before I chickened out and tossed it a trash can. I think the Chinese will put you in jail for life for that sort of thing. The security at Manila checked by bag and yelled mortar round! That gets a lot of attention in a airport, after a pause and several more security folks showing up, he looked at me and said "collector" I said yes, he said ok..................The Chinese scare me more.
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