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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 23, 2010 10:19:59 GMT 8
The IDPF's were not in the fire. They are stored at NARA II in College Park, MD, but are under the control of the respective service casualty office.
I've never seen any of the hell ship IDPF's, but all the details of the loss will be there.
The casualty officers are easy to work with, too. Just tell them what you're doing and they'll do anything they can to help. Nice folks.
Best,
John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 23, 2010 6:34:09 GMT 8
Michael, Sounds like you've done your homework, but I'll ask anyway. Have you obtained a copy of his Individual Deceased Personnel File (IDPF)? These are also known as 293 files. Amazing what you find in them. Often the military knows more than they told the family after the war. Call the appropriate Service Casualty Office and they should send you a copy without charge. Addresses are available at www.dtic.mil/dpmo/index.htmIf nothing else, the casualty office may be looking for a family contact in case remains are ever recovered. Best, John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 22, 2010 3:59:08 GMT 8
Keep up the good work. This is one of the most pleasant places I've ever found to visit in the cyber world and much of that is due to the (often unappreciated) work behind the scenes by the moderators.
Thanks for all you do.
John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 22, 2010 3:53:16 GMT 8
to Johneakin.. I am so sincerely impressed with all of the work you are doing in your personal quest, and how it may help others who sadly feel that tremendous void of not knowing what happened. God bless you and help you succeed. Karol Ames Thank you very much for the kind words, Karol, but I'm sure anyone here would do the same if they had stumbled upon the records I found. These are our brothers. Best, John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 15, 2010 9:07:03 GMT 8
Other records!!! - good point. I never would have though of looking for medical and dental records. Tips for finding records would just about make a forum section all in itself.
It gets really frustrating trying to find records only to be told - after waiting months - that you've requested the records from the wrong office. FWIW, if you've made the request under FOIA they are supposed to refer the request to the proper agency - as long as the other agency is under the same cabinet secretary. Unfortunately, they seem to use that as another excuse to withhold the records.
Best,
John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 15, 2010 8:43:30 GMT 8
Thanks for the reading list, Chad. Sounds like exactly the information I'm looking for on the Bataan General Hospitals and camp medical care. Must be popular as even the used copies are a little pricey. I'll have to check the public library, too.
And thanks, too, for the tip to cite the FOIA. I thought most agencies "punished" anyone that made more work for them by using FOIA. <G> At least that seems to be my experience. Seriously, I will try again under FOIA.
Your experience is similar to mine - you just have to plug away and ask over and over. I was reminded of this today when I made my regular 30 day followup to the Army Casualty Office. It has been four months since I told them where my cousin was buried - plot, row and grave number - and so far I and my congressman and senator have been unable to determine if they have opened his case or need additional information.
The ACO people are wonderful to talk to and it is difficult to get to upset with them, but not only do they not know what the status of the recovery case is, but they have lost one of the DNA samples my family submitted - no record of even sending out the collection kit. And, of course, they know nothing about the family contacts I provided them for 8 of the other 9 unknowns buried in the communal grave with him. They talk a good line about bringing them all home, but after 67 years they can't find a body in a cemetery.
Best,
John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 7:10:05 GMT 8
Just to make things interesting, I believe most of the 201 files burned in the 1970's records center file. We'll have to find someone who was there to find out if they all received a stripe while POW's.
Whatever they did get, it wasn't enough for what they endured.
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 3:53:24 GMT 8
Hey Chad...Since my last post concerning the POWs being promoted one grade I did a bit of re-checking and am now not too sure that the promotion of one grade for enlisted personnel was due to Genl Wainwright exclusively or this was a War Department initiative (maybe both factored into the decision), but I do know that "Skinny" saw to it that the pay records,etc of the people on Corregidor were placed in footlockers and taken out on one of the last Pigboats that left the "Rock" in those last few days before the capitulation. Still says something about this man as a Commander and person, methinks. He usually, if not always, put the welfare of his troops foremost. He was my idea of the great CO. Cheers. Postscript...As for this malady that we all seem to share on this forum, it is kinda enjoyable isn't it? You got me thinking about the promotions thing. Remember Striker, the Gulf War MIA? Seems like he was an O4 when he was shot down, but they kept promoting him and he was an O6 when he was finally recovered. So I went through the 14 IDPF's I have from the Cabanatuan POWs and found that they still had the same rank at the beginning and end of the files ('42 to about '51). When I was in the Army (more than 2 weeks ago), promotion from E1 to E2 and to E3 was pretty much automatic if you stayed out of trouble. But these guys in Cabanatuan didn't get any breaks - talk about adding insult to injury. My cousin was drafted in April 1941 and was still a Pvt when he died in November 1942. In a way, this seems surprising as everything I've read about life in the camps indicates that they functioned pretty much as military units. The unit roster I have for the 2nd General Hospital lists people coming and going on work details and the guard house, etc., much like a morning report. Just wondering what you have to do to get sent to the guard house when you're already a POW? I guess bread and water would have been an improvement. Best, John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 3:38:52 GMT 8
According to Dr. John Bumgarner of Hospital # 2, in his book "Parade of the Dead", on 11 APR 42, two days after Bataan fell, the Japanese "freed" all wounded and sick Filipino troops, about 5500 total, and instructed them to leave Hospital # 2. They were forced to join the March northwards. Colonel Jack Schwartz, M.D., a senior medical officer, protested but was ignored. Bumgarner learned that within days 800 of the Filipino patients had died. About 1500 US troops remained as patients at Hospital # 2. It's my guess that a number of the medical personnel left Hospital # 2 shortly after the departure of the Filipino patients, and probably went straight to O'Donnell. I found a used copy of Bumgarner's book on Amazon.com and it is a great read. In his own quiet, unassuming way, he is the equal of many better known authors on the subject. He filled in a lot of gaps from the "official" unit history of the 2nd General Hospital I've posted on my web site - not to mention how he "humanized" the characters. The 2nd General Hospital is my special research project as that is where my cousin was. Any other recommended reading on the subject would be appreciated. (I ordered Band of Angels the other day.) Best, John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 3:25:38 GMT 8
Several people have contacted me about finding friends or relatives who participated in the Bataan and Corregidor festivities of '42 and I know EXO has done a lot of research on individual participants. It is difficult to tell who survived, who didn't and who returned to the states (one way or another). Even DoD doesn't have a single really *good* database of these guys. I'm sure most of the regulars here know more sources than I do, but here, in one place, are the basic sources I use. Probably the best known is the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC) database which lists all those buried in their overseas cemeteries and those listed on their tablets of the missing. It is a little misleading because it doesn't list those who were returned to the states for burial in either a private or national cemetery. One nice feature is that it is searchable by military unit (as long as they are buried there or missing). I don't think there is a similar database for the Punchbowl or stateside national cemeteries. goo.gl/p33UThe National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) has a database titled World War II Prisoners of War Data File, 12/7/1941 - 11/19/1946. This is a very useful database as it includes information gathered by the BBB, but it is still full of errors and omissions. It is possible to search by unit, but many fields are obviously incomplete. I obtained the raw data for these databases a while back and put it in to .dbf format I can slice and dice, but it really didn't give me much capability that wasn't available from the online version. PM me if someone would like copies and I'll try to find them, again. goo.gl/pDISThe Defense Prisoner/Missing Personnel Office (DPMO) has a database which is probably the best single source I've found, but it is still far from perfect in that (as far as I know) it can't be searched by unit, battle, etc. goo.gl/90OSHere's two more sites if anyone knows any MIA family members or is interested in obtaining more information on them. These sites have links to about anything one could want to find online about the WWII POW/MIA issue. Defense Prisoner/Missing Personnel Office (DPMO) goo.gl/mFsMJoint POW/MIA Accounting Command (JPAC) goo.gl/RyLBJust as a point of information, the DPMO database shows the following numbers of MIA's by service: U.S. Army 17,029 U.S. Army Air Forces 20,465 U.S. Marine Corps 3,113 U.S. Navy 32,606 Other* 851 Total 74,064 To put these numbers in context as far as recoverability of remains, I'm told that most of the Navy MIA's are "deepwater" losses and there is not much chance of recovery. The USAAF losses are generally aircraft crashes which are pretty tough to find and remains are usually fragmented (if any). The Army and USMC losses total just over 20,000 and a very large percent are considered recoverable. According to the ABMC website, there are 3,744 unknowns buried in Manila and just over 4,000 WWII losses in Europe and the Punchbowl. So somewhere around 20% and 25% of recoverable MIA's are probably buried as unknowns. I'd appreciate any similar data sources concerning WWII Bataan/Corregidor loses - especially POW's - if anyone knows of any.
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