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Post by okla on Jan 10, 2013 7:11:37 GMT 8
Hey WW....I am certainly in hope that you run those pics down. The shot of Malinta with the 1941 Ford Staff car sitting in the entrance has been around for viewing all thru the years, but the shot of the Range Finder crew and the Gunners loading the Mortar are new ones for me. Not sure about the view of the ammo magazine. The latter usually all look the same or similar, but the photos of the troops clad in the "doughboy" helmets are certainly welcome additions. One can't help but wonder how many photographs still remain out there in old foot lockers, attics, etc just waiting to be rediscovered. Keep up the good work. I , and I am sure many others, enjoy the results of your efforts. Cheers.
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Post by fots2 on Jan 10, 2013 9:03:29 GMT 8
Hi Will, That is an interesting photo. I have similar views at Battery Geary but none with their helmets on. In the Picturegram, here is a different view of the bottom two photos. Screen capture from History.com This is a screen capture from the 1963 movie “Fortress in the Sea”. You can see the same people and location as in the photo.
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Post by wwalker on Jan 10, 2013 10:52:11 GMT 8
Hello,
Thanks for the input Fots and Okla. I have seen video footage of the range finder scene and I think the photograph in the picturegram was undoubtedly taken from this footage. There is no doubt to me that there are a great deal of photo's out there to be discovered. From reading some of the accounts written during the first months of World War II in the Philippines it is evident that there were photographs being taken fairly frequently; especially during the very early days of the war. Some are readily available, such as the ones from Carl Mydans and other Life Magazine shots.
The photo of Battery Geary is credited to Paul Popper/Popperfotos on the Getty Images website. After a bit of research it seems vaguely possible that Mr. Popper may have taken the photo, but I also learned that Popperfotos (a large global photography company) recently merged their massive collection with Getty Images. That explains this image showing up in the Getty database. So it is unclear whether this photo was taken by someone of that group or if it was an image purchased by Popperfotos at some point in time.
I am very confident that there are many more photo's like this out there, but it is just a matter of hunting them all down.
WW
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Post by chadhill on May 11, 2013 10:05:31 GMT 8
More SWAGS... Browsing again through this fascinating thread, I noticed some interesting comparisons between a couple of fots' photos and the 1942 Japanese newsreels. First, for reference here is a drawing of the M1890M1 mortar on a M1896 carriage. There were several versions of that carriage, and those used at Geary may have had some differences from the one seen here. Here are the two remaining M1890M1 mortars of Pit A. The far one, "number 2", lies with its barrel on the ground next to its overturned round mounting plate. Note the curved chip in the left edge of the plate. (photo courtesy fots2) Here is a snapshot from one of the newsreels. The barrel for the number 2 mortar is up on top of magazine # 1. What may be the slotted inner round mounting plate, or "racer", stands upright against the concrete magazine wall, like a coin on its edge. At the top center of the photo is the magazine vent. One or two loose shells can be seen in the upper left of the photo. Part of the mortar assembly, with two hooks, can be seen angling upwards in the lower left corner. This is a 1966 photo by Francis Gabour. From what can be seen, the round mounting plate, including the racer, looks to be intact as it is today, although it has been moved to the left from where it was in the newsreel snapshot. It seems to rest at a more erect angle than it does today, also. What appears to be the muzzle of the barrel can be faintly seen; so it has fallen or been pushed from the top of the magazine. The two hooks have tumbled over. The sign says, "This mortar is loaded. Please do not put anything inside the tube". Now, if you'd like to scroll back up to the second picture (fots' color photo), look again at the curved chip on the left edge of the round mounting plate. A wild SWAG is that this was caused by the falling barrel, knocking the plate over... A Philippine Expeditionary Force photo of mortar # 1. I try to cross check most things I quote from Wikipedia. This piece seems ok and is informative: The 1890 M1 (Model 1) 12-inch mortar was one of the most powerful coast artillery pieces of its era, and was the most common type emplaced to guard U.S. harbors.
This mortar, and its later model, the M1908 was able to fire either high explosive or deck-piercing shells. The former weighed in at 700 lbs each, and the latter at either 800 or 1,046 lbs. These mortars, firing the half-ton shells at an elevation of 45 degrees, had a range of 12,019 yds. (about 7 miles).
The deck-piercing shells were usually the ammunition of choice, because even the heaviest battleships of the 1890-1920 period were relatively lightly-armored on the tops of their main decks, so a plunging half-ton shell could inflict severe damage on one of them. Early on (from about 1890 to 1915), coast defense mortars were also supplied with so-called "torpedo shells". These were thin-walled cast-iron shells roughly 5 ft. in length that carried explosive charges of about 130 lbs. and were meant to detonate upon contact with the deck of a ship, scattering shrapnel among the crew.
The M1890M1 mortar was most often installed on an M1896 carriage. The mortar and its carriage weighed a total of 78.5 tons. The carriage was geared to enable it to be turned (in azimuth) by means of a traversing crank with two handles, located on the right side of the piece. A ring marked in degrees of azimuth ran around the mortar, just outside the inner steel circle or "racer" that carried the carriage, and a soldier read a pointer on the racer to aim the mortar in direction. The tube was raised or lowered (in elevation) by twin geared wheels with long spokes (resembling ship's wheels) that were located on either side of the carriage. The breech could be rapidly depressed to an almost level position for loading and then be quickly elevated for firing.
In addition to the elevation of its tube, the factor that determined the mortar's range was the size of the powder charge that was loaded into its breech, following the shell. The desired range for the mortar was specified in terms of zones. The smallest zone (shortest range) was Zone 1, and the largest (longest range) was Zone 9. With the so-called "aliquot charge", up to 9 equal-sized, disk-shaped bags of powder (each about 2 in. thick and containing 6.3 lbs. of powder) could be attached to a 10th (or "base") bag, by means of cloth binding straps that were sewn to the base bag. Often the base bag was painted red, indicating that the powder assembly was to be loaded into the breech "red end last," so that it bumped up against the closing breech block (or faced the gunner). The red base bag also contained a small charge of black powder as an igniter. When the breech was closed, a detonator was inserted through the breech block and contacted the igniter, ready to set off the full powder charge.
The mortar could be fired in one of two ways: either electrically or manually (by the pull of a lanyard). And each method had its own type of detonator (electrical or friction). Electrical firing required first that the crew attach a wire to the electrical detonator, which protruded from the breech block. Second, the crew had to connect the firing cable coming out of the pit floor to the carriage of the individual mortar, out in the pit. Third, the circuit switch (usually located on the wall of the pit near the data booth) leading to the individual mortar had to be thrown into the closed (firing) position. Finally, the firing magneto, which was mounted on a special "shoe", often on the wall of the pit near the data booth, had to be cranked up and then released, sending the firing current out to the pit. Depending on the switch settings, the mortars in a given pit could be fired one at a time or all together. Lanyard firing had fewer fail-safe features, and was accomplished by a crewman who stood well behind the breech and pulled smartly on the lanyard to fire the individual mortar.This 1942 Japanese newsreel snapshot of a M1908 mortar from Pit B intrigued me, too. Because there is a concrete wall behind it, I at first figured this was the mortar which was blown over magazine # 3 onto the road to Battery Crockett. But when I compared it to fots' photo below, I realized that the barrel was pointing the wrong way along the wall. Also, the rods extending from the cylinders are too short. (photo courtesy fots2) If there is a concrete wall near the surviving M1908 mortar up on the western ridge between Batteries Geary and Crockett, then the mortar shown in the newsreel snapshot could be it. The fots photo below shows that gun today. (photo courtesy fots2) But if there is no such concrete wall near the mortar on the ridge, then I SWAG that the mortar in the newsreel snapshot may have been a second one which was blown onto the Crockett road...that is, unless there's a concrete wall on the golf course! Then it's a coin toss-
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Post by fots2 on May 12, 2013 1:06:37 GMT 8
That is a very good post there chadhill. Some new photos too. Here are a few comments. - It is amazing that the shell in Pit ‘A’ Mortar #2 never became dislodged or exploded after falling off of the magazine’s roof. - Out of a total of eight mortars in both pits, six are still at or in the immediate area of the battery. All four Pit ‘B’ mortars are still there, two of the Pit ‘A’ mortars are missing. - “the curved chip on the left edge of the round mounting plate”. This SWAG seems possible to me. Have a look at the following photos, no question the chip is ‘damage’ and not ‘by design’. - “The 1942 Japanese newsreel snapshot of a Pit B mortar beside the wall”. There is definitely no wall near the mortar on top of the ridge towards Battery Crockett. No wall at the golf course either. That is definitely a Pit ‘B’ mortar in the snapshot and the location of all Pit ‘B’ mortars is accounted for. (Two are supporting the roof of the left-side magazine, one is beside the wall facing Crockett and the fourth is nearby on top of the ridge. I am quite capable of being wrong but I have a feeling that the mortar seen in the snapshot actually is the same mortar that we see along the wall today. Have a look at the snapshot and see how far it is sitting from the wall. Note my photo below and see how narrow the road to Crockett is and how close the mortar is to the wall now. Here is my little SWAG. First, scrappers made off with some of the mounting hardware attached to the tube like they did with the mortar up on the ridge. Second, when the island was being cleaned up, the road to Crockett was partially blocked by this mortar. Using what equipment they had (most likely inadequate for the job), they pushed, pulled and shoved the mortar one end at a time towards the wall. The end result was it being turned around and upside down as compared to the snapshot. The cylinder with the longer rod that we see today may be out of sight on the far side of the tube seen in the snapshot. The cylinder with the short rod as seen in the snapshot (right-hand side), is it even attached to the mortar or did it bounce off the wall and is just lying there? Another view of the Pit ‘B’ mortar sitting along the wall. I have a question for you or anyone reading this. Do you know the source of the story that one of the Battery Geary mortars was blown across the road up into the golf course? I am wondering if it is another myth perpetuated by time. “The Case Report” dated October 6th 1945, was a detailed official document initiated by General Homer Case. It’s goals were stated to be; “Proceedings of a board of officers appointed to evaluate war damage to the harbor defenses of Manila and Subic Bays”. When they discuss Battery Geary they say that after the center magazine explosion, “Large chunks of concrete fell as far as the AA battery on the golf course, 1200 yards away”. There is no mention of a mortar being blown to the golf course. I wouldn’t think this fact would get overlooked if it was true. Some more Battery Geary goodies... Battery Geary under construction (Started in November of 1907 and completed on June 6th, 1911) Plan of Battery Geary
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Post by wwalker on May 12, 2013 3:47:22 GMT 8
Very interesting discussion. I have spent quite alot of time researching the May 02, 1942 explosion at Geary, and I am still trying to piece some of the details together. Many sources say that one of the barrels landed on the golf course, and I've also heard that one of them landed out in the bay. I will check into the sources and see if I can find a definite eye witness statement on the golf course story. I am in the process of writing a narrative about that day and I have some first-hand accounts that have never made it into the newer historical accounts, as well as one account given by Byron Kearbey that was never recorded until this past year. Mr. Kearbey was asleep on the top bunk in the back of the far-right chamber of the right magazine when the explosion occurred. When he came to he was on the floor and "deaf as a post". When he emerged from the chamber it was a horrific sight.
Pit B was put out of action several days before the explosion occurred. So in the time leading up to the explosion the pit crews were manning the mortars in Pit A (the older mortars). The shelling of Battery Geary by the Japanese in the days leading up to the explosion was so heavy that the men were having to take turns going out to a loaded mortar to pull the lanyard, thereupon retreating to the nearest chamber in the right magazine. Like clockwork, counterbattery fire poured into the pits. That is undoubtedly why and how one of the mortars remains loaded to this day. But one thing that never seems to be emphasized in most books is that the battery fought an artillery duel to the very last, until it was decimated. There is no doubt that the mortars were effective as I think it is fair to say Battery Geary was one of the primary targets of the Japanese artillery until it was destroyed.
I'm going to have some extra time this summer, so I will post more about this later.
WW
(Addition:
From Col. Paul D. Bunker’s diary: April 29, 1942 “Looks as though B-Pit Geary is permanently out: power plant blown up; many hits on mortars and emplacements; pit full of debris etc.”)
After thinking about it, I am pretty sure the story of the barrel landing on the golf course originated from some of Gen. Wainwrights accounts:
General Wainwrights Story (1946 publication)
"But the one that scored directly on Battery Geary was perhaps the worst. It wiped out not only the gunners but also broke up seven of the twelve heavy mortars capable of firing at Bataan. Another was severely damaged. General Moore and I went to Battery Geary immediately after the hit to survey the damage, which clearly showed the tremendous power of the Japanese shell. A ten-ton barrel from one of our guns had been picked up like matchwood by the explosion and thrown a hundred and fifty yards uphill to the cratered golf course."
The term used in refering to the barrels as "matchsticks" developed from Wainwrights publicized accounts following the war, and has been commonly used ever since. Newspapers across the country published an account that Wainwright wrote immediately after the war, and included a similar description of the scene.
Here is a clip from some of my writings on this, based on writings of Captain Abston of Battery Globe 60th CAC located on the golf course at the time of the explosion:
"In the aftermath the commander of Battery Globe, Captain Aaron A. Abston, counted at least fifty five scattered 12” shells among his open emplacements on the golf course. They had been in operation there since April after making a narrow escape from Bataan before it fell. Twenty seven of his men were wounded from the falling debris and shells from Geary. One unfortunate soldier, Private Louis A. Thering, died shortly after one of the large shells bounced off of one of the 3” AA guns and onto him. Only two days earlier, Globe had suffered a terrible catastrophe that left 11 of its men dead."
I don't believe I noticed mention of the barrel landing on the golf course from Abstons accounts, but this has prompted me to re-look at what I have. The main source seems to have been Wainwright, but this discussion has made me want to look further into this.
WW
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Post by chadhill on May 12, 2013 7:36:41 GMT 8
That's very interesting, WW. It would be great to hear first-hand accounts and other information you could share with us when able. (Late edit insert WW, see bottom.)The earliest work I've been able to find that mentions a mortar landing on the golf course is Morton's 1953 Fall of the Philippines, page 541. From the footnote given, it seems the account was based on Captain John Gulick's Memoirs of Battery C, 91st CA (PS), page 181, which I don't have and cannot find online. A short summary of Gulick's is located on the other side of this website but doesn't record the event. Howell's The Battle for Corregidor, page 92, says "one barrel of the battery landed in the sea", referencing a 1950 interview by SSGT Silas K. Barnes USMC, who was then a PFC with Company A, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines. Thanks for providing those close-up photos of the "curved chip" fots; you are incredible! Looks like a barrel could have fit there. Appreciate those extra goodies, too... Your SWAG about the Pit B M1908 mortar seen in the newsreel snapshot is right on. I completely agree. It has to be the same mortar seen on the Crockett road today, since there is no concrete wall up on the ridge (I figured that would be the case) and all four Pit B mortars are present and accounted for. Next time I'll tie a knot around each of my four fingers so I won't lose count! * * * * * Late edit: WW, I plugged in just before you updated your post, and didn't realize you had done that when I hit the "Creat Post" button for mine. Anyway, I hadn't even thought to check Wainwright's book; that was a nice find on your part!
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Post by okla on May 12, 2013 7:43:42 GMT 8
Hey WW....Methinks that if anybody can dig the info up regarding Battery Geary, that guy would be you. Looking forward to your findings. This is good stuff. Cheers.
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Post by fots2 on May 12, 2013 18:17:00 GMT 8
Hi WW, That is very good information, thank-you. It seems some people “in the know” did not mention the mortar falling onto the golf course but the text from General Wainwright, who visited the battery after the explosion, is certainly compelling. I would believe information such as this far more than from any author who is only repeating what he was told. That may or may not be correct. As for other stories; one barrel in the sea, one barrel breaking through the bottom of a barge in Manila Bay and one making it to Manila on the banks of the Pasig River. At least one of these stories is wrong since only two barrels are missing. (The Pasig River story apears to be correct though as a photo showing a mortar on the river bank does look like a Pit ‘A’ mortar). US troops cross the Pasig River in Manila, 1945. Like others, I await the results of your research regarding Battery Geary. First-hand accounts make history all the more interesting not to mention accurate. Good luck
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Post by chadhill on May 13, 2013 9:55:26 GMT 8
Fots, it looks to me like a M1890M1 barrel in the Pasig River photo, too. At the top of the butt end there is a recess for rack teeth used by the breech block rotating gear. Faintly seen just below that is a smaller slotted or beveled machined area. There is a trunnion band halfway down the barrel. For comparison here is a pic I took at Battery Way in 1985. The piece to the left of the barrel in the Pasig River photo I'm not so sure about. If it's the gun elevating rack, it doesn't seem to resemble one from a M1890M1, as shown below on pages from the 1942 Army Tech Manual. Maybe it came from something else? Also ran across this interesting cut-away view of the base ring and racer in the TM: Another photo I took on the 1985 trip. Fots, is the other embedded M1908 to the left of this one, and about how far back inside magazine # 3 is it? (Toying with yet another SWAG...) I cannot remember. Thanks, Chad
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