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Post by westernaus on Nov 4, 2011 20:24:08 GMT 8
I second that fots2 .
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Post by xray on Nov 5, 2011 12:28:58 GMT 8
okla, I have relatives in Germany & Norway, and go to Europe as often as I can. I have indeed been to Verdun, staggering amount of carnage that occurred there. Many scars from that terrible era remain, and quite a few sobering exhibits. I have been up and down the invasion beaches, and explored the remains of German fortifications. Have been also to the remains of the Maginot line, some are battle scared, most fairly pristine, as they were simply bypassed by the aggressive and tactically sound Germans. I have been on many jaunts in Berlin, Munich, Nuremberg ect exploring, insofar as possible, remains of Third Reich era structures. Would love to go further east and check out Polish and Russian battlegrounds, and of course setting foot on Pacific battlegrounds would be a dream come true.
As far as the USA, I am a big fan of Gettysburg, have been there half a dozen times or so. A pretty vast area that was drawn into the conflict there, you can spend days and weeks there and still not absorb it all. Have been to Siloh, Bulls Run, Fredericksburg and Antietam, and all of that is really just scratching the surface. Been to some Revolutionary sites as well, Valley Forge and Bunker Hill.
I must say honestly, if I had the choice to go on an all paid 2 week battle trip to anywhere I wanted, Corregidor would easily be #1, Stalingrad or Iwo probably #2. Gallipoli would be nice as well.
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Post by okla on Nov 6, 2011 3:03:10 GMT 8
Hey Xray...Man o man, how I envy you. My top three picks are Corregidor, Gettysburg, and Little Big Horn, and I have been to the later couple. Corregidor is out of the question at my age (79 years). My one and only shot at visiting the "Rock" was when I volunteered for assignment to Clark Field back in 1953 when I was scheduled to rotate home from Korea. That fell thru so it was back to an AFB in Texas. My visit to Shiloh (have been there three times) was very meaningful to me. My Great Grandmother's brother was with General Buell's force that arrived in time to save General Grant from a possible defeat. I also had a 4/Great Grandfather who served with a Virginia Regiment that "hunkered" down at Valley Forge during that terrible winter. I didn't know this when I was in that area, many years ago. Being strapped for time on that trip I opted for spending a couple more days in D.C. Little Big Horn is a very haunting place, but actually nothing to really view other than bare prairie and hills. The Park Superintendent told us that "ghosts, literally walk at midday" on the site. With my over-active imagination, I swear he was telling the truth. I always had a hankering to visit Dunkirk and, like you, Stalingrad would be most interesting. Having said all this, Corregidor will always remain a distant First Place on my list This also includes Bataan, of course. I suppose Pearl Harbor woujld rate as Number 4. Wake Island, Singapore, Omaha Beach and Guadalcanal also make my wish list, but I must be content with visiting these hallowed locales via Internet and certainly I depend on 'ole Fots to keep my Corregidor habit fed with his Fots Fantastic Foto Tours. I enjoy your contributions, big time. Please continue with them. Cheers.
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Post by xray on Nov 6, 2011 13:51:41 GMT 8
Bataan would of course be included in any Corregidor visit, would be a crying shame to be so close and not at least set foot on this historic, bittersweet peninsula. Fort Drum would also be nearly mandatory, the whole area wreaks with bitter history. Don't give up hope okla, if I ever hit the lotto I'd be more than happy to snag you up and drag you to the Rock. Everyones different, I have uncles in their 80's that are still climbing trees and playing hockey - I think I'd feel lucky to even be walking from point A to point B at that age, but life is just a progression, and you feel different once you reach certain milestones in life. I know when I was 20 I though 40 was ancient, now that I'm over 40 I think 60 is pretty old, pretty soon I'll be climbing that hill as well, such is life. To me, as long as you learn, and are willing to learn, you are still growing, regardless of age. There can be no purer form of learning than military history, so we are still advancing as individuals when we have the desire to learn.
I don't know what it is about the Rock, but it has always had a strong allure for me, since I first heard of it as a child. One of my uncles in his 80's I was talking about, he has always been a pure airplane nut, he started taking me to air shows when I was about 4, and we have been going multiple times a year every since then. Anyhow, I could tell you all about the Ploesti raids when I was 10 years old, could tell you the pros and cons of a B-17 vs a B-24, all that stuff. My interests as a child revolved around ETO, and I really had no idea of the PTO side of the war. When I was about 13 or so, I about cleaned out my local library of WW2 books, and having read just about everything I was interested in, I took a pot shot and picked up a book called "The Flying Buckaneers", it was about Kenneys 5th Air Force in the Pacific. I was blown away, I felt like the guy who discovered fire. A whole new world of interest opened up to me, and I started to devour anything I could about the Pacific war. I stumbled on a book about the death march, in fact it might have even been titled "The Death March", and that started my life long fascination with Corregidor.
Seriously, if I had the choice of a 12 hour no holds bared date with a super model or a 2 day trip to Corregidor, I would take the trip without thinking. I simply must go, and I am confident I will. I have to walk the ground that was the scene of so many hopes, and so many nightmares. As good as reading can be, as vivid as imaginations can be, and superb as fots and others photo threads are, there can be no substitute from walking the ground in person, and seeing with your own eyes the lay of the land that our forefathers, tragically, got to know so well.
Ok, I'll get off that tangent. Speaking of Bataan, I'm guessing there is very little if any remaining of Camp O'Donnell. what is the lay of the land like there now, anyone know ? And Clark, I know it was battered by a volcano, what is the state of that area now ?
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Post by fots2 on Nov 6, 2011 14:34:28 GMT 8
Hi xray,
Very good post there.
It would be great to somehow get okla over here to this part of the world. You both would appreciate what you see more than anyone else I know. I agree fully that you can read forever but you need to get your boots dirty on the Rock at least once.
Other than the Navy Tunnels in Mariveles and a few other minor exceptions, there does not seem to be much remaining from the war to visit in Bataan. Plenty of memorials do exist though. Clark Field has a few things to see but again most are memorials. I have been by Camp O'Donnell only once on the way to Mount Pinatubo. Other than that memorial I hear there is little to see. People such as Karl or dmether etc would know more about the POW camps. I need a trip or two up there myself to wander around.
P.S. Depending on how the lottery turns out, consider the super model AND Corregidor. Good luck.
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Post by okla on Nov 7, 2011 3:05:46 GMT 8
Hey Xray....You sound like a man after my own heart (or however the saying goes). I wanted to add one thing about the Ploesti Raids. I, for almost 20 years, worked for a man who made the very first Ploesti Raid. He was the replacement Flight Engineer for the original crew member that had been wounded on a prior mission over Italy) on a B-24 that already had 10 or so combat missions in the region, but none to anything like Ploesti. Boss said that he aged 20 years that day. His A/C Commander asked him how he felt after their return to base and Boss replied, very shame faced, that "he had actually "crapped his pants". The Pilot told him not to worry about it, because every member of that crew had done the same thing, at least once". He said it never happened again, on follow up Ploesti Raids or those into Southern Germany and Austria.
Postscript....There is a great website devoted to Clark Field. I found it on Google quite sometime ago, but didn't have sense enough to write it down. Should be fairly easy to locate. Many before and after pics, prewar photos, etc. Even has shots of local "beauties" in the Angeles bars/cabarets, etc.
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Post by fots2 on Nov 7, 2011 16:36:58 GMT 8
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Post by okla on Nov 8, 2011 8:30:03 GMT 8
Hey Fots...You have come thru, once again. This is the main one I remember perusing a few years back. There is another site with a bizillion pics of most of the buildings that were standing prior to transfer to the PAF. I don't know who took the photos or for what purpose. Might have been some type of property inventory, but whoever it was didn't spare the film. He shot barracks, administration type structures, hangars, warehouses, dependent living quarters, the whole nine yards. That place certainly was an extensive facility at the height of it's existence (Vietnam era). I have heard it called the "Country club of the USAF". A congressional investigation found that it had the highest alcoholism rate of any base at one time as the clock was running out on its long history. Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2011 10:03:37 GMT 8
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Post by fots2 on Nov 20, 2011 17:40:10 GMT 8
Good one ironman. That is actually the web site I was looking for. It's bookmarked now.
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