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Post by pdh54 on Sept 15, 2012 20:54:42 GMT 8
oozlefinch and all, A while back we were speculating about torpedo storage in the tunnels. Here is a photo I came across that shows ammo being stored in the tunnels. I thought you might find it interesting. It is a cover photo for LIFE magazine that armyjunk had posted on the CDSG Forum, from the collection of BW Smith. It was posted on December 24, 2008 www.cdsg.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=172&highlight=malinta+tunnelPatty
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Post by pdh54 on Sept 15, 2012 21:03:27 GMT 8
Even though there is no ammo in this photo, something about it caught my attention. It is Malinta Tunnel also, but no specific location in the tunnel. It is a LIFE magazine photo too posted by armyjunk in 2008 on CDSG Forum. Patty
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Post by okla on Sept 15, 2012 23:38:40 GMT 8
Hey Patty....The tunnel depicted in the second photo is, methinks, one of those ventilation tunnels that could be entered in the rear of each lateral (generally), running parallel to the main tunnel. The opening on the left should lead into a concrete lined lateral. This comment, probably, should fall into the SAG category, not SWAG. There is a small degree of difference between the two. Cheers.
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Post by pdh54 on Sept 16, 2012 1:35:31 GMT 8
Okla,
You are probably correct. Look how primitive it is, the electric line and all. I'm surprised it is totally empty of any overflow stuff. But maybe the rule was to keep this tunnel totally unobstructed.
Maybe in addition to ventilation, these were used as a quick means of getting around the tunnel system.
Patty
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Post by Bob Hudson on Sept 16, 2012 8:59:49 GMT 8
Pardon my ignorance but what kind of ordinance is that stacked up in the tunnel? To me it looks like some type of bomb to be attached to aircraft.
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Post by fots2 on Sept 16, 2012 9:26:07 GMT 8
Hi Patty and okla,
The second photo looks exactly like the pilot tunnels that were dug to provide ventilation at the ends of the north and south side Malinta Tunnel laterals. They were never enlarged or concrete lined.
This particular view shows a section that is quite high and wide. Some sections are narrow and low so that you have to bend over or you will hit your head. The ventilation shafts are surprisingly crooked and up and down, unlike the straight lines you see on tunnel maps.
Earlier this year I printed this photo and took it with me to Corregidor with the intention of locating the exact spot we are looking at. There appears to be a lateral on the left hand side so I thought this would be easy. If it was the northern shaft then I would start looking from the east end and if it was the southern shaft then I would start from the west end. No ventilation shaft/lateral intersections were a match or anywhere else that I could see. The photo does not resemble any view in the QM tunnels either.
I expect the photo in question was taken in Malinta Tunnel somewhere. During the war there were massive explosions is some areas that may have fractured the surface of the rock walls. This would alter what we see today. There is no question that the rock is flaky and often I see small sections of unlined tunnel that has recently fallen. It is very obvious as the old rock is black and burned and the rock under it is pinkish white.
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Post by pdh54 on Sept 16, 2012 10:10:51 GMT 8
Bob,
I don't know what kind of ammo that is. I just put the photo up because we had been discussing how much stuff they could have stored along the walls. At that point we were talking about torpedoes. It looks like they did fill the tunnels leaving only a small lane for moving about.
The torpedoes from the Navy at Cavite were over 20 ft long so these don't seem to be them. Maybe they are extra rounds for a battery? Like I said, I am not familiar with the different kinds of ammo. Can anyone hazard a guess?
Fots all I know of the location of this tunnel is from the CDSG Forum where I found it. It is captioned as Malinta Tunnel. I just like the picture. It is a little spooky to me and gives me shivers. Must be the shadows and the men emerging from them. And the texture of the rocks. Brain on overdrive. Sorry sometimes things just strike me a certain way....just getting old(er). Hahaha.
Patty
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Post by fots2 on Sept 16, 2012 22:17:56 GMT 8
Patty,
That is an interesting photo for sure. I think the guy standing in the foreground to the right (with a wire dangling down) is holding a flood lamp or such a bright photo would not be possible. The light bulb on the left side wall is lit but not providing much light. Look at the harsh shadows behind the two men walking towards us, they line up with the man holding the flood lamp.
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Post by fots2 on Sept 16, 2012 22:43:26 GMT 8
Bob, I am far from any ordinance expert but I see no fins at the rear so I think these are not bombs but artillery shells. (There is something at the rear but seems small for fins to me. I don’t think Corregidor, an Army Post, had many bombs). To stack them two across in a lateral and keep a walking space indicates they are not excessively large. Large calibre shells (8-in, 10-in, 12-in) are short as the powder to propel them is inserted into the gun separately. Here we see the complete “bullet” so to speak. I guess that we are seeing 6-inch or smaller artillery shells. These guys are holding 95 pound shells for 155mm (6.1-in) GPF guns. There were quite a few of these guns on Corregidor. When you compare these shells to the ones in the tunnel photo, the tunnel shells are longer, narrower and have a more pointed nose. The 155mm shells are fat and shorter with a stubby nose. Now take a look at the shells for the 3-inch Coastal Defense Guns. This type of gun equipped batteries James, Cushing, Hanna and Maxwell Keyes. Men with 3-inch shells at Battery James on Corregidor. The shell diameter, length and narrow tip look close to what we see in the tunnel but where is the tapered section in the casing? No match here. Since 3-inch looks good, let’s try 3-inch Anti-Aircraft shells. Finding photos of these shells was a bit difficult but I got a few. 3-inch AA gun crew in action. The shells are partially hidden but there does not seem to be any tapering. Another 3-inch AA gun crew in action, Brits this time. Close-up of the shell seen in the previous photo. There does not seem to be any taper at all. Judging by the size of the soldier in the tunnel photo and the shell dimensions, I think chances are not bad that the ordinance stored here are 3-inch AA shells. Obviously this information is not conclusive so our ordinance experts can let us know for sure.
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Post by okla on Sept 16, 2012 22:45:30 GMT 8
Hey Fots....AA rounds seems logical to me, but what are those "ring" appearing gizmos shown, especially in the lower layers of the stacked rows? ? Patty....You are just getting started with enhanced/enlarged imagination due to to encroaching age. Just you wait till you have been on the planet as long as yours truly and you will be imagining all kinds of crazy stuff. Check some of my SWAGs over the last few years and see just how they have gotten "out of hand". Cheers.
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