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Post by xray on Nov 12, 2014 5:19:30 GMT 8
Have encountered a lady whos grandfather was USMC and apparently saw action on Bataan & Corregidor. Not unusual, what I think might be unusual is she is also certain he was on the Death March. He ended up in Japan so is a Hell Ship survivor as well, and was liberated to enjoy a long life thereafter. She is trying to track down more info about him, she is also trying to track down some of his medals that were dispersed after his death. I encouraged her to post here and hope that she does, so I won't add any personal info at this time ,,, But what kind of scenarios can you guys think of where a US Marine saw action on both Bataan and the Rock and was on the death march ? I mean, no doubt it is possible, they transferred guys back and forth between commands for various purposes, but I am under the impression that most USMC that saw action in both commands were eventually captured on the Rock, and thus could not have been on the march ,, Would you say circumstances like these are: * Rare * Uncommon * Common ?
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Post by okla on Nov 12, 2014 9:16:58 GMT 8
Hey Xray....Like you, I naturally assumed that all the Gyrenes were in the 4th Marine Regiment on Corregidor, but thinking about this, I suppose there could have been a few Marines stationed with the Naval Detachment stationed at Mariveles, serving in non combat status. Of course, whatever his job, he would have been rounded up with the other Fil/American forces and herded into the POW pens. Methinks it would be highly unlikely that many USMC members were taken prisoner on Bataan. It would be interesting to learn the facts regarding this man.
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Post by JohnEakin on Nov 12, 2014 9:18:48 GMT 8
The O'Donnell burial roster is far from complete, but I find at least six Marines - mostly 2nd and 3d Battalion - who died at O'Donnell (out of 1553 total deaths). Since this was the terminus of the BDM and most of those who were captured on Corregidor went to either Bilibid or Cabanatuan, there is no doubt that some Marines made the Death March.
Bless all these guys. IMHO, the arguments about who was on the Death March are largely irrelevant. Without taking anything away from those who suffered the BDM, there was enough horror in the camps and hellships and Bataan and Corregidor, that it is almost like arguing about what is the best way to die. All these guys have my total respect.
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Post by xray on Nov 12, 2014 10:10:07 GMT 8
Absolutely, relatively irrelevant ,,, But for a person trying to research an ancestors wartime history, it is important to get as accurate insofar as is possible. She says there is a picture of him on the march, and am looking forward to which one it is if she is inclined to supply the info. We have all seen the pics, and there are just a scant handful known to exist. I just thought it would be unusual for a USM to have seen action on both Bataan & Corregidor and to have been captured on Bataan. Once Marines were ordered to Corregidor from Bataan they tended to stay there, assigned mostly to beach defense, that is my impression. Of course, a myriad of other scenarios are possible. Perhaps he was originally on the Rock and sent to Bataan for whatever reason and was captured there. I have the Marines name but will hold off posting it until it is clear if the lady will post here or not - If anyone is really curious and can't wait pm me and I will supply it.
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Post by xray on Nov 12, 2014 10:50:29 GMT 8
A little more info I have gleaned
PVT 4th Marine Regiment M Co 3rd Bn
3rd served on Cavite, did it not ? Then was transferred to the Rock. So that would explain seeing action in both commands, but would make it very tough to have been captured on Bataan.
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Post by xray on Nov 14, 2014 12:43:34 GMT 8
Ok doesn't look like she is going to post, if she does she can be directed to this thread.
Soldiers name Edward Hilton Howe. If any more info can be gleaned post back, I will relay any info to her.
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Post by chadhill on Nov 16, 2014 11:07:25 GMT 8
According to J. Michael Miller in "From Shanghai to Corregidor: Marines in the Defense of the Philippines" (pages 43-44) there were 75 Marines captured and known to have participated in the Death March, 45 from the USAFFE-USFIP guard detachment and 30 from the Marine Air Warning Unit, which ran a mobile SCR-270B radar. Another Marine from an AA unit (presumably at Mariveles) had contracted polio and was left behind at Hospital #2. Miller states there were no known USMC deaths on the Death March.
John Eakin's findings of 3rd Battalion fatalities at O'Donnell got me looking some more. According to Frank Hough's WW2 history series of the USMC "Pearl Harbor to Guadalcanal" (page 171), the USMC Bataan units came from the 3rd Battalion. On Corregidor, Company M 3rd Battalion occupied the Ramsay Ravine area. It may be that Mr. Howe served on Corregidor and was then transferred or rotated to Bataan where he stayed until the surrender.
It is also possible that Mr. Howe saw combat at Longoskawayan Point. The USMC AA batteries at Mariveles were manned by the 1st Separate Battalion, which was soon absorbed into the 3rd Battalion. Many of these men fought at Longoskawayan.
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Post by okla on Nov 17, 2014 2:18:59 GMT 8
Hey Chad....You the man. Great job of digging. I gotcha a job lined up at the National Archives. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Nov 17, 2014 5:57:45 GMT 8
Thanks ol' bud, I'll send in my resume Here's part of the April 9, 1942 entry from the R-2 Journal of the 4th Marines: And my translation SWAGs: Beginning on the fourth line at time 1648- ... Battery "C", 3rd Battalion Mariveles, 2 officers & 63 enlisted USMC, 7 USNR & 1 USN (Hosp) arrived from Bataan (less 3" AA Guns destroyed) joined 3rd Battalion. 3 enlisted presumed P of W.Further down the page: 9 Men from AWS Bataan joined HQ CO 3rd (Battalion)- 3 (2?) officers & 22 enlisted presumed P of W. {AWS Bataan must be the mobile Air Warning radar unit}. Near the bottom of the page: Following personnel on detachment at Bataan presumed P of W
3rd Battalion 6 enlisted
Battery "C" 1 enlisted
HQ 7 enlisted
Service CO 5 enlisted
1st Battalion 5 enlisted
Radio Bataan 2 officers 23 enlisted
Hospital 2 officers 7 enlisted
2nd Battalion 2 officers 17 enlisted
Total 6 officers 71 enlisted"Radio Bataan" refers to the USMC radar unit. The total number of POWs agrees closely with what the history books now say. The 19 men from the 2nd Battalion should explain John Eakin's finding of 2nd Bn fatalities at O'Donnell.
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Post by okla on Nov 17, 2014 6:34:46 GMT 8
Hey Chad....You have my endorsement. The job is yours. Meticulous record keeping such as the above journal, etc, surely makes research so much easier for people to search out facts at this much later date. We owe plenty to these Orderly Room types. They stayed at their tasks benefiting us curious types probing for info to dispense on this Forum. I betcha the morning that Genl Wainwright went to meet with Genl Homma, that Morning Reports (also Duty and KP Rosters? ) were being prepared in Malinta whilst the fighting was raging out around Kindley Field. Some things will never change. At least let us hope so. Cheers and keep the good stuff coming.
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