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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 12:37:21 GMT 8
I really have so many questions about the 462nd PFAB I don't know where to begin, so I'll just jump in:
My Father, Les Webb, joined Battery D sometime in late 1943 or early 1944, as near as I can tell. He just recently passed, on Dec 18th, 2014 at the age of 91.
We talked several times about his service with the 462nd and their participation in operations on Corregidor, Negros, Noemfoor, and Mindoro. I know he went to jump school at Ft Benning in 1943, and was also at Camp MacKall in Feb 1944. He was sent to Camp Stoneman in California after the 462nd was alerted for overseas duty in March of 1944, and was aboard the US(?) Sea Cat (C4 type Liberty Ship) sailing for Australia. He arrived in Brisbane, Australia on April 2, 1944. In July 1944 he made the trip to Noemfoor, and his unit joined up with the 503rd there. He started his career as a Private, and ended as a T5 and squad leader.
I know he was trained on the Pack 75, 75mm Howitzer, but read somewhere that a newer, larger 105mm weapon was deployed at about the same time as the Corregidor operation. Based on what I saw and read, the pack 75 was used on Corregidor.
I've been able to find out some particulars about certain locations, but don't know the extent of his battery's participation in those areas, as the info I can find is very sketchy for the 462nd and nowhere near as complete as the info I can find on the 503rd itself. I have several packets of pictures that I've been going through with my Mom, some of which we'd seen before and some of which we had never seen. I'm in the early stages of scanning them so I can catalog them and possibly share with this organization. We also have his Ft Benning Jump School 'book'; It reminded me of my own book I received upon USN boot camp graduation in 1976. It has generic pictures of all phases of the jump school training, and is signed by 45 -50 individuals of his group.
He belonged to the 462nd Battery D Association, and I have copies of their roster, dated from 1978.
Now Questions: 1) Can someone explain to me the aspects of what constitutes a 'Battery'? How many men, etc. or was a squad equal to 1 Battery? The association roster contains around 90 names, which makes me think that its equivalent to a company. 2) As a T5, I know he was considered a corporal, but was a squad leader and squads were usually commanded by a Sargent. Is this common?
3) On Corregidor, did most of the 462nd assume positions on the Topside parade ground to supply cover fire, or were there other areas that were used?
4) Any info that can be supplied as to Battery D's participation on Negros or Mindoro would be appreciated.
I have more questions but hope future dialog will provide some answers and additional info.
Thanks for any responses from this forum.
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Post by Registrar on Jan 3, 2015 10:18:32 GMT 8
Techdoc1, I'm glad to see that you've been doing your homework working out the 462 time line. That's a great place to start. Contrast it with the 503d Time Line I created at: corregidor.org/503rd_Association/timeline.htmWe have been lucky to get a few interesting articles which are 462d specific. In the early days we were fortunate to make the acquaintance of Arlis Kline, who was the CO immediately before Corregidor when he was wounded. Knudsen then took over (actually cutting Kline down from the tree where he had hung up, seriously wounded.) Arlis used to like telling the story about how he became CO of the 462d by shooting his existing CO, Madigan. We even have a few pics by Don Madigan, who had become CO at Camp Mackall on 15 June 1943. (Look for Don Madigan's Collection). Articles by Arlis Kline include "By Order of Major Kline" (a photo feature) and "Bob Hope on Noemfoor." His document packet is now available for everyone to see what paperwork was necessary in planning an operation. We have a short history of the 462d by Lt. Plemmons. (If, in your travel, you come by his full name, I'd sure appreciate it!) There's also the "Synoptic History of the 462d PFA Bn" by "Hoot" Gibson. Check out George Leland Taylor's photo collection too, as it contains some good photos of the Japanese surrender on Negros. Dolane Larson wrote a very nice retrospective about her father, who was in Btry A. Look for "The Presence of His Absence". There's also Btry D's Battle Histories by Jesse B. Gandee, and a second part which includes the Negros Operation. There's also the poem "A Handful of Silk and God" which is by an anonymous 462d trooper. I haven't linked these as I want you to go spotting for these targets yourself. No, the 462d did more on Corregidor than line up on topside. They dragged their 75's directly into action by harness to deal with cave closures, for instance. I have a pic somewhere with the men in harness rushing on the way to have their say in the Ordnance Repair Machine Shop fight. Taking a pack 75 to a gunfight is the way to win! I am very keen in getting the best digital scans for the site, and eventually in doing a collection book with features the photos. In this way, I have been able to create a permanent visual record of the unit's history, the up close and personal record of the men involved. I did a special custom version of the FADING MEMORIES book for "Big Mike" Parendo's family, and his daughter bought copies for everyone in the family. She wrote me today as follows: PM me for my private e-mail.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 12:21:28 GMT 8
Thanks so much for the quick reply and the wealth of info shared. I've really enjoyed the picture collections and other documents I've found on this collection of sites. I'll also be checking on those books and names you provided.
I have a roster from a 1978 reunion of the 462nd Battery D held in St Louis, MO. It has no mention of a LT Plemmons, but I most certainly will forward any info about him I may come across. This Battery D reunion roster also has a listing of officers and enlisted by rank, and has an accompanying document that has some other info, some duplicates, about other members. Included with the names on both rosters are status (i.e. KIA, etc). if you'd want a copy, I'd be more than willing to scan it and send it to you.
There's also the matter of a picture attached to one of the documents that shows two men on a stage. One is identified as Brig Gen George M. Jones (former Captain), the other gentleman is not named. What really got my attention was the typewritten caption:
"Brig Gen George M. Jones, Ret., St. Louis reunion 78, on right, holding plaque for Leslie Webb, Battery D-462nd Parachute Field Artillery. Heidt. D-462"
The plaque appears to be rectangular, made of wood, is framed and has the classic "503rd Rock' insignia in raised relief on the surface. It looks to be about 12"x20", based on the size of Gen Jones, but that's only a guess. There's also a small engraved metal plate under the eagle, but the resolution is too small to make anything out. I've scanned the front and back of the with the intent of putting it up here, but I can't make the picture function work. I would like to know why my dad got the plaque, where it might be now, and how do I get it? He didn't attend that reunion and that plaque is nowhere amongst his military memorabilia.
I can also find no record of the name "Heidt" on any of the rosters, and that name (no first name) is on several letters my dad received. Any help with that would be appreciated too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 12:37:59 GMT 8
Too funny..I think I just found Lt Plemmons first name; Clarence W. it seems like he was around at the beginning as part of the Parachute Maintenance Section at Camp MacKall under Major Madigan.
Hope that helps.
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Post by Registrar on Jan 3, 2015 21:19:34 GMT 8
Yes, I should greatly appreciate a scan of the reunion rosters. I have continued the works of Don Abbott & John Lindgren in compiling as comprehensive a listing of 503d PRCT KIA's, and roster information would be greatly appreciated. I was able to establish the listing of 462d men killed on Corregidor and to gather from various sources something about many of them. There are a number of men I believe were killed at Monkey Point, and a further number about whom I know nothing. It's a shame that I only came upon the scene in 2000,and not many years earlier. The men joshed me a bit, and told me that finding out the details would no longer be in the realm of possibility. They were right, of course. Send me the pic and I can edit it into your post. Pvt. Heidt, Joseph R. Jr. was in Battery "D" - Look in the Templeman Roster of men who jumped. Check out the Georgia photo of the States Photo series and you'll find him there too. I see that the Maneuver Center of Excellence (MCoE) Libraries , HQ Donovan Research Library , Armor Research Library at Fort Benning has now posted a full copy of Templeman's RETURN TO CORREGIDOR into the public access. This is great, and reflects how information continues to grow in this area. When I started, there wasn't anything. Now it's almost raining information! These websites have been built from a great many obscure and esoteric pieces of information acquired only since 1998, attesting to the power of the internet not just to disseminate information, but also to gather it. 1st Row; L. to R. Sgt. Hughes, S/Sgt. Douglas, Cpl. Roberts, T/5 Wilson, Cpl. Cone, Lt. Jackson, Pfc. McKnight, Pfc. Martin, Pvt. Wilson.
2nd Row; L. to R. Pfc. Lambert, 1st Sgt. Hindman, Pfc. Culpepper, Pfc. Mooney, Pfc. Crooms, Cpl. Lubgleg, Pvt. Lane, Pfc. Taylor, Pfc. Moore Jr., Pfc. Johns, Pfc. Heath, Pvt. Heidt, Cpl. Fryer, Cpl. Smith Jr., S/Sgt. Wammock, Pfc. Bunch, Pfc. Doss, Lt. Lord, Lt. Westbrooks.
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Post by tmayer on Jan 3, 2015 23:18:03 GMT 8
Clarence W Plemmons 0-1178292 US Army Register 1961 Volume II list his retirement date from the US Army as June 30, 1960 (Major).
Corregidor
It appears Lt Plemmons made his way to Corregidor by fairy on February 18. He is listed as passenger on LST 667.
LST 667 and LST 613 were the two vessels employed for casualty care among Task Group 78.3. The Task Groups mission was to transport, protect and land the landing force, together with its equipment and supplies at Mariveles Bay on D-Day, to make subsequent landings on Corregidor on D plus 1, and to support both landings by close gunfire, in order to open the entrance to Manila Bay.
LST 667 accompanied the convoy from the starting area and received casualties on the 15 and 16 of February. LST 613 arrived in the combat zone on February 16, and received causalities after LST 667 reached its capacity. These two ships alternated a daily fairy service to Corregidor through February 27.
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Post by tmayer on Jan 4, 2015 14:46:55 GMT 8
Of interesting note…
26 men of the 1st Bn., 503rd PIR, under Command of 1st Lt W.E. Blake and 170 men and 10 officers of the 462nd Parachute Artillery, under command of Captain C. Mathis were taken to Corregidor on Feb 17th aboard the USS Manley.
The USS Manley boats hit the beach at 1708.
The USS Manley reported that intense mortar fire broke out from the enemy on the left flank in the cliffs. Enemy machine gun fire was heavy, but was being fired just above the boats.
The USS Manley reported that 1st Lt J.B. Gandee was returned to the ship with a back wound. There were no casualties to the ships personal. It was also reported, that 2 additional troops landed by the Manley were casualties.
Seeing how 1s Lt. J.B. Gandee was on this Vessel and was in 462nd Battery D, good chance your Dad, Les Webb was there too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 14:50:25 GMT 8
Since my dad was in a MG squad in Battery D and not an officer, I'm not sure about him being on a boat at Corregidor. He only mentioned being on a boat going over, coming back and landing on Negros. I have pictures of him all suited up on Mindoro on Feb 15th during a gear check prior to the drop on the 16th.
Also, I scanned in several pictures and other things and sent them to 'Registrar' tonight to be added to the archives. How do I get picture loaded up on a page, if I'm not using one of the picture sites?
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Post by tmayer on Jan 6, 2015 3:59:12 GMT 8
According to Guthrie, “Three Winds of Death”
The initial Assault force, 1st drop consisted of the following;
Third Battalion 503rd Battery A, 462d Company C, 161st Elements of the Regimental HQ Company, 503rd A detachment of HQ battery, 462d Platoon of .50 caliber machine guns of Battery D, 462d
The 2nd drop consisted of the following;
Detachment of Regimental HQ, 503rd Second Battalion 503rd Service Company 503rd Battery B, 462d Platoon of .50 caliber machine guns of Battery D, 462d Third drop was to consist of;
Remainder of the Regimental HQ, 503rd First Battalion 503rd Battery C, 462d Platoon of .50 caliber machine guns of Battery D, 462d
Since the third drop was called off, they were brought to Corregidor by boat on the 17th.
The following transports were used for this landing force; USS Talbot USS Schely USS Kilty USS Crosby USS Manley Do you have a copy of Three Winds of Death? Bennett Guthrie does a good job at describing how the 462d was organized and some of their action on Corregidor.
Each Artillery Battery consisted of 91 men and six howitzers (4 plus 2 in reserve to cover any losses). 9 men were assigned to each gun. A .50 caliber machine gun section was assigned to each battery.
The 462d battalion consisted of HQ & Service Battery, A, B, C & D Batteries. Battery D was designed to protect the 462d Artillery Battalion Batteries. Battery D had 12 .50 caliber machine guns (10 plus 2 in reserve to cover any losses).
Battery D, 462d fired two of their .50 caliber machine guns on the Bottomside beach area on the 16th in support of the Third Battalion, 34th infantry amphibious landing.
There are still a few guys from the 462d that attend the reunions; Paul Scheuerman, Gene Karbowski, Kenneth Lyle and Nelson Gatewood. Kenny and his wife have been to all or almost all the reunions and have hosted about 6 of them. Paul Scheuerman of New York, was a machine gunner in Battery D, he probably knew your dad. He’s 93 years old, retired plumber from New York. He was telling me a story of how he had to man .50 caliber machine gun on the boat he was on during the kamikaze attack on their way to Mindoro.
As far as posting pictures, read the thread "ABC to membership and posting photographs" under the General Board. Probards only allows a limited amount of storage... that was used up a long time ago. More is available, by you have to pay $. So, members who want share photos need to have their photos hosted by a third party.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 14:09:02 GMT 8
I had originally thought that Battery D was a pack 75 battery, but discovered after more research they were actually the 50 cal MG battery. That's where I've run into some roadblocks; I don't know what platoon he was in, but as I said, he never mentioned anything about arriving on Corregidor by boat. He always mentioned 'jumping' on Corregidor, and had talked about having one guy in his stick get wounded by shrapnel while flying (but I'm not sure it happened for Corregidor either). So that seems to narrow it down to two platoons. All I have to do is find out which platoons went where.
According to the Corregidor Battle History Document I have:
"The Machine Gun Platoons were assigned to their respective Infantry Battalions. The 1st Machine Gun Platoon; 1st. Lt. Roscoe B. Morris, commanding, was attached to the 3d Battalion, 503d Parachute Infantry. The 2d Machine Gun Platoon; 2d Lt. Robert G. Allen (KIA), commanding, was attached to the 2d Battalion, 503d Parachute Infantry. The 3d Machine Gun Platoon; 1st. Lt. Jesse B. Gandee, commanding, was attached to the 1st Battalion, 503d Parachute Infantry."
The Battle History also states:
"The Machine Gun Platoons consisted of one officer and forty-five enlisted men. Their equipment was: Eight .50 cal. Machine guns and supporting weapons and equipment." That means that there were in excess of 24 MG's in place, not counting the 2 spares mentioned above, which is more than the 12 that are shown above.
You mention that Lt Gandee was on the USS Manley, according to the manifest you provided earlier, so it appears that the 3rd MG Platoon was the unit that was deferred to the boats. The same LT Gandee is the 462nd historian who submitted the Battle History, so I'm more inclined to give credence to his count..
I haven't read "Three Winds Of Death", but I do have an original paperback AND digital version of "Return to Corregidor" and another book on Corregidor (but the title escapes me right now) given to him by O.C Lay, one of the D battery members from Michigan he kept in contact with. I will definitely add that title to my 'must read list'.
I live about 3.5 hours from Dayton and plan on attending the reunion scheduled for July/August. I've been really boning up on the 503rd and the 462nd in particular. I've also sent "Registrar" a D-Battery 1945 roster and a roster from the 1978 reunion D-Battery had in St Louis. I found the roster entry for Paul Scheuerman; he was a PFC in 1945, but he's not in the reunion listing.
The picture posting isn't really high on my 'punch-down' list right now as I said above, I also sent 'Registrar' a set of pictures I scanned, and still have several more sets to scan and catalog.
Thanks so much for the opportunity to converse with you about this.
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