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Post by cbuehler on Dec 17, 2015 10:52:11 GMT 8
Okla, you are quite correct. All too many took advantage of the chaotic situation in most of the PI following the surrender of the US to their own advantage. Lawlessness was a major problem for the Japanese Military Administration during the occupation, particularly in the provinces. Virtually every Guerilla organization, and this includes the best of them, were at some time guilty of internecine warfare and terrorization of local towns for their own survival. The worst of them rarely (if ever) did make good account of themselves, and can only be termed as outlaws at best. Little is mentioned since the war of the frequent reliance that many provincial towns had on the Japanese Army to maintain a semblance of law and order.
CB
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Post by tomasctt on Jan 9, 2016 12:35:47 GMT 8
I, for one, am interested in this. Is there an official list of accused collaborators? IIRC, there is a Supreme Court decision out there that mentions several prominent Filipinos working in the puppet government who were charged as collaborators. They were imprisoned after the war but released after, IIRC with no hearing. One of those is IIRC an uncle of my grandfather.
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Post by cbuehler on Jan 12, 2016 12:02:25 GMT 8
Essentially all the members of the Executive Commission and subsequent cabinet members of the Second Philippine Republic were arrested or under investigation at the end of the war. I presume many of their staff were as well. You can find out who they were by a simple search on the web. Many of the famous old street names from Spanish times in the City of Manila were renamed after them. There were of course many others not so well known who were involved with other government entities such as the resurrected Philippine Constabulary etc. As all the top oligarchy were pardoned by Roxas with the backing of MacArthur and against the wishes of many including Osmena and many in the US Government (this is another story in itself), I would suppose they were not formally "accused". MacArthur knew the Philippines and how it was run. He owed much of his status to, and was linked to many of those who were arrested.
CB
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Post by fortman on Jan 12, 2016 14:24:21 GMT 8
Many years ago I read that, just before the fall of the Philippines, Quezon asked some prominent persons to "collaborate" with the Japs in order to influence their rule and to act as informants to MacArthur. How true this is I do not know. Maybe this was just to redeem themselves.
fortman
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Post by xray on Jan 23, 2016 10:31:03 GMT 8
Interesting topic, one which I have never thought about or pursued. I figured justice was meted out to bonafide collaborators there as elsewhere, but apparently not.
Obviously a very touchy situation hard to judge from our vantage point. Reality dictated that some had to maintain relations with the superior foreign force occupying power, and this was no doubt recognized at the time. However, there were some who went far beyond doing what they had to do in a very difficult situation, and cooperated to a level that was a detriment and even deadly to their fellow countryman. Some, as has been pointed out, might have genuinely and ideologically believed in the Japanese propaganda and thought they offered the best choices for their nation. Others, perhaps a majority, did so for personal financial/power gains, and it is this group that should be considered "bonafide collaborators".
I will read through the CIA report when I get the time, looks interesting. They certainly had the resources and intel at the time to frame the situation as clear as it could be.
Its hard to blame people for wanting to rewrite history and sweep things like this under the rug, all of us here would likely do the very same in similar circumstances. In the Dutch East Indies, the native population there was almost to a man pro Japanese, there was no chance whatsoever under those circumstances of forming any resistance at all ,,, And in fact, I don't believe there was any, even coast watchers [correct me if I am wrong]. The Philippines, regardless of coverups and erased history, were no where near that level, as just the fact that the US was able to set up and maintain the largest resistance movement in the pacific makes clear. Obviously, motives, personalities and agendas were highly tangled and must have been a nightmare, I think the wonder is that it worked as good as it did for so long - Credit to all involved.
Quick question/thought - Marcos was bonafide "resistance" during the war, was he not ? He must have been well in the loop of those knowing who was who during the war. Do you guys think he more or less turned a blind eye to the history cleansing for his own political gain ? Did he in fact knowingly collaborate with collaborators in his years in office ?
edit: Just did a brief search of Marcos alleged activities during the war ,,, Looks pretty dubious at best. Would still be interested to hear thoughts about this though. It would seem that the man would have no problem collaborating with anyone so long as it advanced his career, prestige and lifestyle.
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Post by Registrar on Jan 24, 2016 8:22:26 GMT 8
edit: Just did a brief search of Marcos alleged activities during the war ,,, Looks pretty dubious at best. Would still be interested to hear thoughts about this though. It would seem that the man would have no problem collaborating with anyone so long as it advanced his career, prestige and lifestyle. Your edit pretty-much sums it up. Marcos (Snr) was personally quite capable of murder, though his legal skills and deft mindedness got him off the charge. That is quite well known. Murder IS a way to solve problems in politics and business in the Philippines (and lately in London too, I see), but politics is a system of feudal patronage here in which the rich and influential family buys votes, and creates a self-perpetuating political machine. Marcos (Snr.) repute has been rehabilitated, after a fashion, by his own political machine which has inexhaustible sources of funds for the purpose. There are vociferous bloggers for the resurgence of the Marcos legend, and whether they are true believers hardly matters, they are obnoxious and unwanted trolls, all the more active as the Marcos machine is churning for the vice-presidency. Well, I don't suppose it's the first time a close family member of a widely loved but former liar of a president has run again for highest office. Truth is the first casualty of politics everywhere, and winning is the absolution of all past sins. (It has been a legal doctrine here for decades that re-election forgives all prior allegations misconduct, corruption, etc., although the Supreme Court has tried to close down the issue here.) The formula we hear most often here is the media defense of "These allegations are untrue and are raised by my opponent (insert name here) for crass political motives, and I shall vigorously defend against these baseless allegations. I look forward to having my day in court." So as long as you delay a case longer than an election cycle, you're free and clear, and able to pass the mantle of power to your wife, your son, your daughter etc. Laws have recently been passed (in the Philippines) against such practices but as they were passed by the very body against which such baseless allegations of familial cronyism and political dynasties were once made, we can all think what we want, nothing will change. Money will always buy power and influence, and power will always attract the ruthless, not just here but in every part of every country, everywhere. The most destructive force of the 20th Century has been the fanatic reincarnated as a professional politician, and it has been the grandest deception of all that it is the professional politician who is the ultimate standard of value. The first defense of a rogue is that he was a guerrilla against the Japanese, but there were numerous instances where the rural populations were in terrorem of roving bandit and brigand groups as much as the Japanese. On a happy and positive note, I am pleased to say that the real guerrillas kept comprehensive lists, diaries and records and that they were the custodians of the real truth. Which sort of explains the way that I feel about pro-Marcos trolls. Consequently, I will support any board members with editing privileges who delete such trolls on site. For those who might want further reading, I suggest you search Sakakida on this forum, because he was an instance in which the mixture of truth and fiction became so blurred as to fool even Military Intelligence.
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Post by cbuehler on Jan 25, 2016 0:07:29 GMT 8
The whole truth regarding Ferdinand Marcos and his activities during the war will likely never be resolved. His father Mariano was apparently a Japanese collaborator to some extent and was murdered by a Guerilla, although this has been modified by some to have actually been done by the Japanese instead. Ferdinand was held by many to have been personally responsible for the revenge murder of the man who killed his father. There are so many varying accounts regarding Macoy, as he was known, that one cannot be sure of much of anything. He has been called a hero, charlatan, collaborator, double agent etc. and the list goes on and on. Suffice to say that none of the American Guerilla leaders in North Luzon would vouch for him or his activities during the war that I am aware of. To continue, Manuel Quezon apparently did say something to the effect that those who remained had to work or collaborate Japanese for the benefit of the nation. We do not know just what he meant or to what extent he intended, but it was up to those who actually had to deal with the situation to determine that I suppose.
CB
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Post by xray on Jan 25, 2016 12:39:05 GMT 8
Hmm, learn something new all the time. I always knew Marcos was an opulent despot of sorts, but I always thought his guerrilla credentials were fairly legit. Didn't know his father was killed ostensibly for collaboration ,, Which in and of itself would not necessarily reflect on the son, if that is even the truth. Quite a murky affair, but if he claimed a myriad of medals and honors that he didn't earn, that alone seals the deal for me.
Has it ever been verified that he was ever in the physical presence of Mac at any point of time ?
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Post by cbuehler on Jan 27, 2016 10:02:06 GMT 8
To my knowledge and others, Macoy was never in the company of MacArthur. I don't wish to comment further, but anyone can research the controversy regarding his medals on the web. Traditionally in the Philippines, allegiance, loyalty etc., was expressed in terms of family, provincial or language group and then country, and I stress in that order. If one were to go to Ilocos even today, the reverence for Marcos is still very evident and strong. My wife and her family are Ilocano and I never heard a disparaging word regarding him. This trait among the Filipinos was one of the major stumbling blocks for the Japanese, who just could not understand nor accommodate it. In WW2, the sympathy of the Philippines in the majority was solidly behind the Americans. The Japanese, in their considerable effort, failed dismally in their inability to understand the people and culture. I might add that the US apparently did have a much better understanding and were able to accommodate Filipino ways. As an example given, the 91st CA (Philippine Scouts) were also mostly Ilocanos from the north of Luzon, particularly the senior NCOs of the regiment. Preference was often given to recruits from those areas where the Ilocano language was spoken. Potential recruits were also recommended and vetted by the senior NCOs from their own localities within the Ilocano speaking provinces, made possible by family connections.
CB
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 0:07:56 GMT 8
old post I know but it is an interesting and touchy topic. Reading the Wikipedia ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sakakida )on Sakakida was interesting. Is anyone interesting in providing text we could add to Wikipedia post so as to elicit a more critical point of view about Sakakida. The most negative thing written in the wiki is, "According to the Associated Press 1996 obituary of Sakakida, three former guerrillas, including a Roman Catholic priest, claimed that he "fabricated his role in the escape." This remark was footnoted with "Richard Sakakida, 75, U.S. Spy in Philippines in World War II.". Associated Press (at thefreepress.com). Retrieved January 18, 2011.
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