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Post by armyjunk365 on Mar 15, 2014 5:37:03 GMT 8
I believe the tank IDed by the "Subic Bay Marines" as at Zigzag Pass and the one supposedly on Corregidor are one and the same, notice both guns at 11 o'clock and both forward hatches appear to be opened the same amount.
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Post by chadhill on Mar 19, 2014 9:27:21 GMT 8
Hello AJ, I see what you mean, and I think you may be right that they are the same tank. The forward hatches are in the same position. Although I don't see the turret hatches in similar positions (one is completely upright in the second pic below), the hatches might not have been totally rusted in 1952 and may still have been moveable. The first photo is labeled as having been taken on Corregidor, the second at Zig-Zag. If they are the same Type 97 tank, I wonder which caption is correct? subicbaymarines.com/images/1952/Page.html" Mahan and Mendon on a tank on Corregidor". " Japanese tank in Zig-Zag Pass outside Olongapo". |
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Post by okla on Mar 20, 2014 8:13:36 GMT 8
Hey Chad....I have spent a bit of time "eyeballing" (as you well know, I love this kind of stuff) these two photos and I gotta vote with you and AJ that this is the same tank. If for no other reason, the damage shown on the front area of the Tank is obviously identical. This, in addition to the position of the turrets with the cannons at Eleven O'clock. I also gotta believe that the "relic" is/was Zig Zag Pass, again, if for no other reason, no mention is made in writings of a wrecked tank being on the "Rock" in later years (to my knowledge). Again, this is just my humble, which so often has come up lacking. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Mar 20, 2014 13:33:32 GMT 8
Hello okla, good to hear from you again.
Check out my post dated October 14, 2012 above...according to the Belotes, there was indeed a lone Japanese tank on The Rock in 1945. It was taken out by P-47s during an airstrike on James Ravine.
The Subic Marines made a trip to Corregidor in 1952 and took a number of photos. The first pic above is labeled as one of them on their website. AJ's observation does raise a question in my mind, but the possibility that the caption is accurate remains.
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Post by okla on Mar 20, 2014 22:27:35 GMT 8
Hey Chad....I can't question the Beloits. Not for one instant. Their Corregidor book was my "Bible" for years and still stands tall with me, although I haven't used it in quite a long time. If they say there was a tank on Corregidor, I will take it as Gospel, plus the two Gyrenes, of course, know the difference between Zig Zag and the "Rock", so this makes me believe that both photos were taken on Corregidor. Now, the question for me is, whether the person who labeled the "Olongapo" photo knew what he was doing. Then, on the other hand, did the person labeling the Corregidor pic know what he was doing. Now, after saying all this, and displaying my senility for all to see, I wonder if I know what I am doing. I think I will go for a walk and clear my mind. Cheers. Postscript....I still love this photo "Interp" stuff, but look what it is doing to what mental facilities that I have left.
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Post by The Phantom on Mar 21, 2014 6:17:47 GMT 8
I am rereading "Mac Arthur in the Philippines" by Michael Green and have come across a section on the Tank battles in the
Central plains in 1945.
The information may be interesting to some, as it chronicles the Japanese use of the tanks they had in the Philippines.
"As Mac Arthur's ground forces advanced into the heart of Luzon's central pains, the Japanese commander of Luzon made an effort to defend Highway 5--one if the few key highways that ran across the island.
To accomplish this he decided to deploy the only Japanese armored division in the Philippines around the Munoz-Lupao-San Jose Area.
( On the current map you can find this area north of CABANATUAN.)
The town itself was an excellent defensive position for the Japanese armor.The town of Munoz was on flat ground except for a railroad track
which leveled off at a large Rice Mill and a drainage ditch which was in a deep ravine on the west end of town.
The many trees lined with undergrowth located on the north and west of town gave it's defender excellent cover and the Americans none as they approached.
The town had been hit by American pre invasion bombardment like so many other Philippine towns.
However the town had 2 large Rice Mills that had withstood the bombing, and there was also a stone school house.
The rest of the town that had consisted of tin roofed earthen huts had been leveled.
On January 30th, 1945 the leading edge of an Infantry division approached Munoz when it was fired on by Japanese machine guns.
During the rest of the day the American's tried to approach the town from various directions but were repulsed by heavy machine gun fire.
That same afternoon a U.S. Army artillery liaison plane reported seeing tank tracks throughout the town but no Japanese tanks themselves.
Harassing fire was therefore placed on the town, and a night patrol attempted to infiltrate but was unsuccessful.
The Japanese continued to fire flares and opened up with machine gun fire at every opportunity.
However they did not disclose the existence of any heavier weapons to the attacking Americans.
On the morning of Jan. 31st a battery of American 105-mm howitzers laid, but when the infantry attempted to advance they were again pinned down, Artillery and motor fire were again laid on the area and the G.I.'s withdrew under the cover of smoke.
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Post by The Phantom on Mar 21, 2014 6:49:21 GMT 8
" At 7:45 am Feb. 1st American's attacked one of the large rice mills following a 15 minute artillery preparation by a battalion of artillery.
now the Japanese defenders of Munoz began to disclose more of their defense positions by fire from their 105-mm howitzers and high velocity 47-mm fire from their dug in tanks. after a smoke screen was laid the infantrymen were able to clear the rice mill but were again by heavy Japanese defensive fire.
the Americans spotted 2 dug in Japanese tanks along with a field gun and these were destroyed by artillery fire.
The American officer in charge of the assault on Munoz ordered another infantry battalion to attack from the south of town, but they also were stopped by heavy defensive fire.
the attack remained stalled until a very brave company commander crawled within point blank range of a dug in tank and succeeded in hitting it with a rifle grenade.
On Feb. 2nd 1945, a company of American tanks supported by 2 battalions of self propelled guns swung around the town of Munoz to cut off any escape attempt by it's Japanese defenders.
That morning 2 American infantry Battalions launched another attack on the town following another 15 minute artillery barrage by 5 battalions of artillery.During this attack the Americans did manage to set one tank on fire while 2 others were destroyed in position by white phosphorus shells fired by heavy mortars.
At noon on that same day 3 Japanese tanks that tried to back out of their defensive positions were destroyed by antitank fire, and 2 more were set on fire in the afternoon.
the American commander ordered another assault on the town .
this assault like the others was unsuccessful and also very costly in American lives.Americans' attempts to recover their wounded buddies resulted in even more casualties than had occurred in the attack itself.
The Japanese replaced the destroyed tanks undercover of darkness, making their positions as strong as before.
During the night additional American troops moved into position and on the morning of Feb. 3rd after another 30 minute artillery preparation at 7:30 am by 5 artillery battalions and a company of 4.2 mortars was followed by an infantry attack at 8:00 am.
At dusk the infantry was still 100 yards for town and under heavy fire.
The army unit did manage to penetrate a segment of the first line of defense destroying a number of tanks and field guns but discovered that the Japanese had a second and possible stronger line behind it.
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Post by The Phantom on Mar 21, 2014 7:22:43 GMT 8
" On the next day, after repeated assaults reached the western most street in Munoz.
By that evening the flanking movement of an American infantry unit manged to set up a roadblock on highway 5 northeast of Munoz.
American artillery and mortar fire concentrations pounded the town throughout the night.
Several small Banzai attacks were made by the Japanese but all the participants were killed.
The American assault on Munoz continued on Feb. 5th.The infantry continued the attack to the northeast, the east and north of town.
A counter attack was launched by 4 Japanese tanks and a platoon of infantry but was driven back with high casualties.
These same 4 Japanese tanks turned south along Munoz's main street.
the lead tank hit a mine laid in the street the night before and lost a track.
An American anti tank gun then destroyed the stranded tank at a range of 10 yards. The other 3 tanks turned around and fled.
An American self-propelled gun moved up to fire on the fleeing Japanese tanks but was hit and set on fire by an unseen Japanese 47-mm antitank gun.
There was continued activity on Feb. 6th with further artillery and infantry attacks but the Japanese continued to hold stubbornly.
The Japanese still held 2/3rds of Munoz--32 of their tanks had been destroyed, but they still had 20 left, plus 4 artillery pieces.
During the night of Feb. 6th the American Commander decided to withdraw his forces to the south of town and order a NAPALM airstrike.
The Japanese commander had also decided that night to abandon Munoz and didn't know his way was blocked.
A Japanese diversionary attack began at 3:00am on Feb. 7th and caused considerable confusion on the American side.
However the leading Japanese tank was hit by a bazooka round and after that the rest spread out, and a second one was hit by a 37-mm anti tank gun.
2 of the Japanese tanks reached the main highway and sped northeast.
The infantry accompanying them had already been killed.Artillery fire was quickly called down on the town, knocking out 6 more Japanese tanks, several trucks, and a captured American M3 half-track and towed 105-mm howitzer.
The main Japanese column headed by tanks and truck mounted infantry , dashed out of Munoz with its headlights on.
A U.S. Army roadblock and artillery position stopped a few tanks but was overrun.
The rest of the tank column continued to flee Munoz until it ran head on into an American Tank battalion, which completely destroyed what was left of the column.
In this 7 day action 56 Japanese armored vehicles were destroyed, and almost 2,0000 Japanese soldiers killed.
American losses were 97 killed and 303 wounded."
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Post by The Phantom on Mar 21, 2014 7:30:18 GMT 8
" The Japanese commander of Luzon had the 2nd armored division at his disposal.
This unit was one of only 3 armored divisions in the Japanese army.
Formed in June 1942 the division arrived in the Philippines in Sept.1944. While missing one of it's 4 regiments,
the division could still field 220 tanks.
Most of the tanks of the division were of the latest Japanese models.
The most numerous model was the Type 97 Medium Tank."
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Post by batteryboy on Mar 21, 2014 10:16:47 GMT 8
I have a series of photographs from a good friend taken by his grandfather that shows mostly the destruction of the Japanese 2nd Armored Division in Luzon, including a few photographs of destroyed US vehicles during the encounter. Really some great shots and some use of captured US vehicles from the early 42 campaign that were also destroyed while in Japanese hands. The Munoz and Lupao area was littered with an assortment of Japanese vehicles. Incidentally, I was just there last week and was just imagining the place how it looked like in 1945.
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