Battery Hearn

[victor]

For Filipinos... face is everything. Let the guide tell the wrong thing, let the truth be the casualty for that day. Then perhaps just approach the guide later on in private and tell him of his factual error, not in front of other people that they will lose face and become indignant and unreceptive to correction. Maybe that will work.

They have no excuse to have the wrong information but these people are just doing these as a line of work. They did not spend all their lives reading about Corregidor. They could have been passing information told them by their orientation teacher for the job (if there's such a thing). Maybe they're the only ones willing to accept the job as tour guides and are winging it sometimes. Who knows.

But at the end of the day, if tourists' interest about Corregidor history is aroused and they pick up a book about it when they get home, we've already won. Nobody will remember what the guide said.

Bad information is all over including mainstream media and not just the private realm of Corregidor guides. Did anyone watch Band of Brothers? Did anyone notice that in the TV series they claimed that a paratrooper named Pvt. Blithe died as a result of his wounds after D-Day when in fact he led a successful army career and later fought in Korea? So what do you tell HBO? What do you tell Stephen Ambrose? What do you tell Tom Hanks?

Perhaps documenting all the bad information Corregidor guides give and submitting them to the Tour company on a continuous basis will achieve something. Maybe as a result of all these feedbacks the tour company will make changes. Not much else you can do short of Corregidor history buffs themselves volunteering to be the tour guides.

[fots2]

Victor,

I agree with what you say with the exception of “Corregidor history buffs themselves volunteering to be the tour guides”. No foreigners should be allowed to do the job a Filipino is capable of doing in their own country.

As for an individual approaching a guide and telling him he gave incorrect information. That sounds good but what guarantee is there that that individual is correct? (My five books tells me what I believe verses your three books telling what you believe. Therefore I am correct!!!)

There are people who love to blast the local guides, some worse than others. I know a few guides personally and I find they do a good job day after day. So a couple comments they make is not 100% accurate, that also applies to the rest of us. Maybe we should remember here that they are talking to tourists who forget those facts and figures five seconds after they hear them anyway.

The exact historical truth on every Corregidor related subject does not exist. The guides are ‘accredited’ and they do have to pass an exam so your idea of improving the information they study and standardizing it for everyone is a good one. But who would write it? Certainly not me. I am not a names, dates and times guy.

A group from this board are good candidates. Accuracy would improve considerably but it would still not be 100% and it never will be. No one person should write it.

As late as two months ago I took the guided tour when my sister was visiting the Philippines. It was informative and even humorous at times. The guide was professional and his bus load of tourists was in his capable hands from ten minutes after docking to five minutes before the group embarked again for the return trip to Manila. Sun Cruises has their act together for this operation.

Daily they deal with people from different countries and with different languages. Read Corregidor reviews on Virtual Tourist and Trip Advisor etc. Try to find a negative one. The fact that a couple comments they make may not be accurate does not bother me. They have my respect.

[victor]

Thanks Fots. I guess I sounded like I stepped on a soapbox for a few moments there

I guess what I'm just trying to say is that it's not the end of the world if some wrong information was said by a guide. When I took the sun cruise in 2005 (before that it was 1992 Btty Way was still rusty brown) the guide said something in two separate occasions that perked my ears and made me think "that's not true"... but I can't even remember what it was he said. It's all forgotten.

And I made the example about the HBO series Band of Brothers because I swallowed that information about Pvt Blithe, lock stock and barrel. I totally believed it... until I read more related books as a result of my aroused interest in the subject. So even with that blatant initial wrong information... the truth eventually surfaced for me. That's why I said that if by the end of the day the tour inspired the visitors to pick up a book or two... we've all won anyway. Those wrong facts will be sorted out if not forgotten first.

Great photoshop jobs in this thread though, absolutely awesome

[fots2]

Walng problema Victor. We all step up on the box occasionally, that is what it is for.

Do you have any plans to visit Corregidor again? If possible try to time it (Jan or Feb) so you can explore with us. I know you have met Karl already on Bataan.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2009 18:02:25 GMT 8 buster said:

BACKGROUND: In 1977, a National Media Production Center book published in Manila (1977) called "Bataan and Corregidor - Battleground of the Brave," published a close-up photograph of what was clearly Btty Hearn - yet it was labeled "Battery Reyson, on the northwest coast of Corregidor looks out to Suicide Cliff where scores of Japanese soldiers jumped off rather than surrender in February 1945".

Behind the scenes, and prior to the first reply in this thread, there was a private discussion between some members as to the direction the response should take. After one responds "NO, it's NOT a Navy Gun, what evidence suggests it is?", what does one say about the real issue, namely, "why is there a guide telling people that Hearn was initially a Navy gun?"

One would normally expect Corregidor Guides to be familiar with the physical /geographical aspects of Corregidor, but our observations over time are that their knowledge of the history of the island seems to be haphazard. On a good day, you might get a bad one, and on a bad day, you might get a good one.

It shouldn't be so.

So what do you do with guides who would rather pretend knowledge ("Hearn was initially a Navy gun," "this is Suicide Cliff") than admit uncertainty?

We have further examples - through the years we have suffered the mysterious Btry Reyson (no evidence so far that it ever existed), Suicide Cliff at Wheeler Pt. (fortunately we had direct evidence of why the Japanese bodies were there) and Suicide Cliff at other places (that the name and legend were promoted by guides as a means to maximise tips from teary Japanese). Recently, we even had a travel writer come up with the ever popular "XY was on the Death March and later surrendered at Corregidor." Some of these pale into comparison against "guiding Maj. General George Moore's on a sentimental visit". (General Moore died by his own hand 2 December 1949.)

So how do we deal with incorrect information except to remind everyone to be on their guard against junk scholarship? That reminder takes a subtle path - whimsy. The evidence that "Hearn was initially a Navy gun" is, so far, even more flimsy than the evidence presented of Hearn pictured visiting the pyramids, firing nuclear projectiles, or being fitted to a submarine or banca. It's a challenge to always examine what you are being told.

Sometimes a serious message is wrapped inside a candy paper.

Well I am not privy to any of the discussions that you and your members have as I am a newbie. The point of the matter is that the question that Mr. Steve pointed out is if Battery Hearn was a formerly a Naval gun and before a logical explanation came out, a bunch of retouched photoshop pics of battery hearn came out. So maybe some innocent viewer might take your postings seriously or even confuse them as much as the confusion caused by the tourguides. As a matter of fact, I did not know that this was about the tour guides NOT about Battery Hearn.

Now you even quote a 1977 article, (by the way I have seen the book) and even then its has no explanation being that Hearn or the so called Battery Reyson being a naval gun with the inclusion of the suicide cliff etc. Again, I see no point of this leading to the resolution if Hearn was a naval gun other than that one post.

Sorry if I have pinched your nerve here but I one of the reasons why I logged on to this forum is learn more about Corregidor than just the general information.

Salamat Po.

[fots2]

This post was always ‘larger’ than Battery Hearn (and even the guides). Most of those who responded know each other personally so subtle comments will always appear. Don’t worry about that, you will catch on plus good info on both aspects you mention is posted above.

Since I have already commented on the guides, here is all I can add to batteryboy’s info. It may be minor but in support of his view.

The gun of Battery Hearn was manufactured by Watervliet Arsenal. This company, located in New York state is US Army owned and operated since 1813. So from day one this gun was Army.

Navy guns at that time came from the Washington Navy Yard, later renamed to the U.S. Naval Gun Factory.


Welcome to the board. Perhaps we can learn something from each other.

[Deleted]

Mr. Fots,

Thanks for the additional information. Yes I look forward to learning from all of you here.

Salamat

[buster]

No pinched nerve here, and I certainly do NOT want you to feel we're trying to pinch your nerve, either. Welcome to the Forum.

I wanted to illustrate, beyond just the immediate answer, that one has to stop false stories early before they grow so powerful they can never be stopped.

Yes, it's true that the tourists forget 90% of what the tour guides tell them. I consider a tour guide effective if he transfers a love of Corregidor and what it means. That allows for a variation of style. We don't want the tourists to be bored.

[Deleted]

So why dont you or any of the members here give these guides a referesher. They are bound to learn more if you approach them rather than keep your comments to these boards. That will be a win-win situation.

[batteryboy]

bikbok38,

The approach you have mentioned has already been tried and tried again. The members of this forum boards plus the other societies that the members of this board are part of (i.e CDSG, Corregidor Historic Society, etc.) has had several communications with both CFI and Sun Cruises. These groups have its contribution to the island. If you see the signs on the Batteries, that was courtesy of CDSG members and Valor tours. CDSG regularly send visitors int he island wheher in big groups and small groups when they do their specialized tours. The Corregidor Historic Society is kind enough to contribute digitized maps and every year, a specialized group visits the islands for a few days. CDs on the website have been on sales at the hotel for several years now. Communication is open and the right tools are in place. Its a matter of choice whether these can be put into good use or not.

Welcome to the boards!

Tony
aka Battery Boy