Malinta Hill

[okla]

Hey Chad....Well, I found enough to keep from going " over the edge". In essence, the Brass felt that out shorter range Torpedo of that time would force our Cruisers to close too near the Enemy "line" to be effective (assuming they would explode as designed). Thus, what was known in those days in the policy making area of the USN as the "Gun Club" decreed that Destroyers would be the only vessels utilizing "fish". Might have been a wise decision since our ordance in this area was shorter range and defective to boot. That is a very condensed version of what I found, but it's enough to keep me stable. It ain't going to be easy in my mad descent into senility..I had best let this "dead horse" rest since it isn;t germaine to Corregidor. Cheers.

[fots2]

Hi Chad,

I think your yellow arrow in Post #202 is correct. The mounting bolts being either buried or destroyed is likely correct too. I have a feeling that a bit of digging would expose them though. I remember how the bolts of nearby Battery RJ-43 looked. They were only buried an inch or two with zero indication that anything was there.

The Pom Pom photos you found are very good. It still amazes me how these soldiers and sailors drug such heavy guns around. Some are placed in quite awkward positions.

Why do you think the gun was unbolted? The Japanese newsreel appears to have been taken within days (or at least less than two weeks) after the surrender. You can see POWs at the 92nd Garage area who are still on the island. Scrapping wouldn’t have started this early would it? No people are seen working on top of the hill.

If the shadow you mention in armyjunk’s photo is the housing, then I think it was moved. When you look at the video capture of the gun shelter with the Pom Pom up on the hill, this is no optical illusion. It is a short but relatively steep hill. Past that hill is a continuous downward slope going north so any point past the hill is out of sight from the shelter.

[chadhill]

Okla, that's interesting to know about the rationale for stripping US cruisers of torpedoes. I'll bet money had a lot to do with it too, especially during the Great Depression years. If you can grab a copy of Clay Blair's Silent Victory you'll find info which will cause you to shake your head in disbelief about the USN development, testing and political policies regarding the Mk 14 torpedo and its Mk 6 exploder.


Fots, thanks for your comments regarding the slope of the little hill just north of the 75mm shelter. I feel pretty sure now about the exact position of the pom-pom gun.

You are right that the Japanese newsreel was taken very soon after the surrender since it shows POWs still at the 92nd Garage. I have a possible suggestion as to why the pom-pom was unbolted, as seen in the Japanese photo. About a year ago I ran across some information posted on another site that stated the gun was sent back to Japan for evaluation, and was eventually scrapped. I have spent much of this afternoon searching for that post again but was unsuccessful in finding it. That was the only place I have seen such a claim made and I have not found any supporting evidence to verify it. But it's a possibility that the Japanese were dismantling the weapon during the time the photo and the newsreel were taken.


Here is a photo of a 1.1 inch pom-pom from the USS North Carolina (BB-55) Memorial:

(photo courtesy The Safety Officer at 61oldsalt91.blogspot.com)


After studying this photo and comparing it to the Japanese photo, I now think that the wartime pic shows the pom-pom still attached to its lower housing. The circular plate or "base ring" shown at the bottom in that photo can be seen here below the lower housing, bolted to the ship's deck. That being the case, the round "shadow" shown in armyjunk's photo is probably not part of the mount unless it is a field improvised modification of some sort. And then again, it may just be a shadow.

[fots2]

Chad,

You have a great suggestion as to why the Pom Pom is separated from the mounting bolts. The base ring does appear to be still attached as you say.

On a future trip I just may kick away some of the soil and roots on top of that little hill to see if my boot uncovers anything. Imagine if a circular pattern of bolts suddenly appears. That would be an interesting find.

[fortune40]

Just my humble "amateur" observation..The round base plate of the pom pom is probably bolt connected to a foundation with similar number of bolt holes just like what is done in basic erection of vertical vessels with some shims for the accurate levelling..in that case there should have some kind of concrete foundation there with anchoring bolts buried somewhere atop Malinta hill...

[fots2]

fortune40,

That sounds like a very good observation to me. I would expect to see exactly what you described.

As an example, here is photo of what remains of the concrete platform with a ring of bolts at Battery RJ-43.

[The Phantom]

As to the condition and location of the Pom Pom located on top of Malinta Hill............

On the left side of the photo it appears to show a low concrete wall with post sticking out of it.
That would be beside the sidewalk leading to the steps gong down to the search light location below from the gun shelter.

There is also a possible steel pipe in front of the Pom Pom, the base of which could also be uncovered.

I don't think the Japanese were dismantling the Pom Pom at this time.
I think they "dismantled" it before the surrender with bombs and artillery fire which separated it from it's base and blasted it with a powerful explosion, note all the shrapnel scarring and pieces missing as compared to the shipboard pristine models.

I agree with fots that moving some dirt might reveal the bolts in concrete, a lot of busted up concrete is all around the gun.
The picture shows the blown to hell top of Malinta Hill.
Wonder what the wood was from on top scattered everywhere?

If we do discover the concrete base for the Pom Pom with bolts, it will be interesting to see it they are bent to the west and stripped.

[okla]

Hey Chad....I have the Blair Book(s) and the "operating on the cheap" practices of the War Department, in those years, are mind boggling when you consider some of the buying practices (i.e. $350 toilet seats,etc} that have been brought to light in the past few years. It, really, is incomprehensible when considered in hindsight. The Torpedo development process bordered on criminal to my notion. Cheers.

[chadhill]

Phantom, you raise some interesting points but when I look at the Japanese photo of the pom-pom on its side I see that the base ring appears to be undamaged. The ring has about a dozen bolt holes around the circumference. The retaining nuts must have been manually removed before the gun was turned on its side; if it had been "blown over" with the nuts secured we would see much deformation here. That suggests to me that the gun was unbolted and removed from its concrete platform beforehand.

Since the pom-pom was knocked out of service on 4/29 I doubt whether USAFFE would have had a reason or opportunity to unbolt, dismantle and move the gun prior to the surrender on 5/6. However, if the Japanese wanted it shipped back to Japan for evaluation...


Late thought:

While many of the US guns on Corregidor were old and dated by 1942 standards, the 1.1 inch pom-pom was not. It was relatively modern. The USS Houston (CA-30) had been fitted with four of the guns at Cavite only in late 1941 (in fact, the Malinta pom-pom came from the Houston's stock). The US aircraft carriers were fitted with 1.1 inch pom-poms at this time, as well as some of the battleships. It's not difficult to imagine that the Japanese would have been most delighted to obtain a model of the USN's current fleet AA gun and evaluate it to their heart's desire. When these Japanese pictures of the Malinta pom-pom were taken the naval battle of the Coral Sea had just been fought, and Midway was less than a month away.

[fortune40]

Aug 4, 2012 19:24:32 GMT 8 fots2 said:

fortune40,

That sounds like a very good observation to me. I would expect to see exactly what you described.

As an example, here is photo of what remains of the concrete platform with a ring of bolts at Battery RJ-43

Oh yes this is what i mean...But as i look back at the round base plate in the Japanese photo of the pom pom there seems to be no tell tale sign of explosion rip off, the base is clean...I think the general observation is correct that someone wants this removed..for the reason of either scrapping or scrutiny on the mechanism...hope you find the base concrete in one of your future exploration..thanks fots2