Malinta Hill

[xray]

Wow, great discovery, am just now reading about it.
For what its worth, my conclusions are:

* It is inconceivable that this weapon was not bolted down, it had to have been.
* It is not likely anything other than a direct hit from a large caliber round could have knocked it over, in which case it would have been heavily damaged, and the relatively flimsy surrounding structures obliterated... Not to mention, at least some scarring/pitting on the concrete slab. Neither appears to have been the case, so I would rule out explosive force being the cause of it being dislodged and tipped.
* The conical concrete artifacts are a mystery, obviously formed and poured for a specific purpose tied to that site, likely in proximity to the pipe. Could it possibly have been poured after the weapon was mounted and secured to the pad ?

Really, only 1 thing is certain beyond any dispute - Either Japanese forces did this ... Or, American.
Could it have been a last ditch effort by US forces to wreck it and send it down the hill before capture ? It was obviously lugged up the hill and mounted, so we must have had the capability to dismount it as well. Seems like a stretch to consider that at first, but this was not just any weapon but a new one not yet examined by the enemy ,,, And denying the enemy captured weapons was a sacred duty to many, a last chance to spite a hated foe and do a service for country before killed or captured. If such was the case, they would not have started until after the invasion, which would have left them precious little time to perform an improvised heavy lift operation in extreme duress and under constant observation and attack.

[fots2]

Hi xray,

Your conclusions sound good to me. By the way, I was at this site on top of Malinta Hill a little over a week ago. We uncovered the platform and had another look.

I agree, the gun had to be bolted down.

A nearby blast may have disabled the gun and killed men but certainly it was not a direct hit that knocked the gun over. The concrete platform and bolts are undamaged. I agree the gun was unbolted at some later time.

We were also speculating that the conical concrete was added later but we do not know the reason.

The metal pipe offset from the metal mounting ring is also a mystery. We do not know details of how the gun was mounted and can only guess about it.

Your suggestion about US forces trying to further scrap the gun is certainly a possibility.

Thanks for the comments.

[Deleted]

Hello, all! Geez...took me hours to read this thread! Now I understand earlier inquiries directed at me about the pom-pom gun.

First of all, I offer my public apologies...I always thought of the Japanese pics of the gun mount as (for some reason) a quad-.50 mount (did such thing even exist in the Islands, I think not), and in my mind's eye when the word "pom-pom" is used for some reason I picture a 40mm quad Bofors or similar....anyway....this is the reason for my earlier responses of "I know nothing of a pom-pom gun on Malinta Hill".

That having been said, NO, I do not conclusively know where the gun was mounted, but I do know this: when we were up there in the late 70's (and a 3" gun barrel could still be seen protruding from one of the tunnels up there), we DID find tens of small brass cases, about 6" long (maybe less, maybe more, that was over 40 years ago!), all fired, sticking out of the ground at a spot between the peak of the ridge above SL#8 and the intact 75mm shelter. Again, there are photos of these cases, but they are color transparencies buried among the thousands of slides I have inherited from Dad. I do recall the headstamps were weird (having been used to the typical "FA-28"* type markings). We also found several live rounds which we did not touch, just outside of the "magazine" (about 6-10 feet away) that lies beneath your pipe-in-concrete find.

*FA-28 refers to the headstamp on a fired .50BMG round I found at what we know was a .50-cal position made by digging a circular trench, heaping the earth into the center (forming a mound) and lining both sides of the trench with earth-filled steel casings of artillery rounds. The .50BMG operator sought my Dad's assistance in locating his position (in the vicinity of Battery Denver? I am not sure), and we found it...while he talked about his experiences, I found the spent casing in question. Manufactured by Frankford Arsenal (FA) in 1928 (28), this was one of the rounds this fellow fired. His reaction remains one of my warmest yet most disturbing memories of Corregidor.

[Deleted]

Question: does the bootprint on the busted up cement "dome" look US? It is possible the Japanese added this, after the surrender and before the retaking. Also possible is they removed whatever was in the center of the steel donut mount and added the pipe that is in there now, perhaps with the intention of mounting some sort of weapon or device on it?

Additional: looking at the specs for a 1.1" Mark-2 Mod-2, the gun itself weighs just over 550 lbs, but the mount weighs 10,500lbs (over 5 tons!) with other models weighing between 4.7 to 6.25 tons. Based on the weight of this monster alone, it is not likely that a nearby detonation of a 240mm round could upend the unit without totally destroying the guns themselves, or nearby structures. Are there any indications of a nearby explosion capable of lifting up a 5- to 6-ton plus emplacement and tilting it on its side (without ripping the light metal outer cooling jackets completely off the barrels and the like)?

Last question: what is SWAG?

[Deleted]

Oops, apologies, forgot to cite my source for the 1.1" gun weights:

www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_1-1-75_mk1.htm

[chadhill]

Hello happysniper,

SWAG, a good old military abbreviation, is short for scientific wild-arse guess.

I remember thinking that the 10,500 pound mount weight seemed awfully high and figured it was for a complete shipboard installation including the fire director (that's a SWAG). Even so, the Malinta Hill weapon was plenty heavy as well as bolted down and the 240mm, though exploding down inside the SL 8 ventilation shaft, couldn't have turned the gun over without severely damaging the concrete mounting pad, the cooling jackets and the nearby tin structures. None of that happened.

According to Zaloga's 1979 book Stuart, US Light Tanks in Action, the Japanese army sent several M3's captured on Bataan back to Japan for evaluation. The following newsreel photo, which appears to have been taken with the Malinta Hill ridge line in the background, shows Japanese naval officers present during a Corregidor victory ceremony shortly after the surrender. One would think they would have been very aware that a copy of the USN's current fleet AA gun rests up on the ridge and that they would have been eager to have it sent home for evaluation (another SWAG).



Since the pom-pom was hit on Hirohito's birthday, April 29th, and Corregidor was thereafter under nearly constant bombardment for the final week of resistance, I SWAG that it is unlikely that a US work party tried to unbolt the gun before the surrender and shove it down the hill to destroy it. Explosives would have been quicker and easier I think, if completely wrecking the weapon was critical. Rather, I think the Japanese unbolted it and sent it back to Japan with the Stuarts, M1 rifles, and whatever else they felt should be tested. Years ago, in some obscure text or on some website, I read that this is what happened to the pom-pom, although I cannot find it again.


I think you were in the right place for 1.1 inch ammo. Here's a pic of a round measured next to a ruler. While the entire round is about 1 foot long, the case measures 7.8 inches from neck to rim. There were supposed to be about 25,000 rounds brought over with the weapon.

[Deleted]

Chadhill: that round looks very very much like what we found....but the color of the rounds themselves seemed to be different (not blue or buish or combinations of blue).....the headstamp looks different though....I recall the ones we found had 2 lines of text around the primer, and the imprints were sharper. Dangit! I wish I had the relevant photos with me, but it is impossible to find quickly among thousands and thousands of slides (22 carousel trays and several shoe boxes of loose slides). The size seems right, though. Intact rounds about a foot in length, yep!

They were scattered about the entrance of the "magazine" beneath the promotory (which is where the common assumption now points to as the actual mount location).

SWAG, hahahah, now I get it.

[beirutvet]

Hey fots2, I saw that you had one time posted videos on this thread from your trip to the top of Malinta hill, but I think they are gone or never got on the site.  I would love to see them as I had also gone to the top of Malinta hill.  Any suggestions on how I can see them?

[fots2]

Hello beirutvet,

Thank-you for letting me know about the videos. I do not know why but as you say, they are gone now. They were on Page 18 of this thread which was posted on February 12th, 2013. I’ll get them fixed.

[fots2]

Hello beirutvet,

I reposted the videos but for some strange reason ProBoards is deleting the YouTube video code. I have no idea why and unfortunately do not have a lot of time at the moment to play with it. There is a simple way around this though in that I can give you the link for the videos. (I’ll also put the links on Page 18).

Thanks again for the heads-up.

Here they are:



From the 75mm Gun Shelter to the old Land Defense Magazine



From the 75mm Gun Shelter to the northern tip of the hill



From the northern tip of the hill down to the Searchlight #8 shelter



Pom Pom Gun Mount