|
Post by okla on Nov 12, 2010 1:23:00 GMT 8
Hey Chad...Fully agree about Fots' pix collection. If there is any living soul on the planet who has a more extensive collection of photographs pertaining to "the Rock" I will stand naked in front of the Tulsa County Court House for 24 hours in the dead of winter. He has shots of underground areas/surface structures/ruins, beaches, ordnance, emplacements,etc. You name it and he has it. All this material has to be on schedule for storage at some institution such as the Smithsonian, Library of Congress or some such facility in Canada. It is, indeed, priceless and to think he ain't close to being finished. It boggles the mind. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Nov 12, 2010 13:21:57 GMT 8
Wow Armyjunk, what a great photo. Do you have a date when it was taken? Late war? The pom-pom gun photo was almost surely taken in '42, since the book itself was published in Manila in 1943, and there is a note that mentions an unsuccessful attempt to have it printed in 1942. Fots, the only written hint I have been able to find so far about the pom-pom gun's position on the ridge comes from "Saga". While discussing the 4/29/42 bombardment on page 126, it says: "He [the Japanese] also wrecked the quadruple 1.1 inch pom-pom on the top of the hill and damaged the adjacent tunnel for No. 8 searchlight- in which the pom-pom crew had taken refuge- roasting to death Lieutenant Stanley Friedline, the platoon commander, and five of his men. A great 240 mm shell had plunged from a steep angle squarely down the tunnel's ventilation shaft into the gasoline tank of the searchlight's 25 kw generator". Looking at the pom-pom's position on the ridge in the PEF photo and comparing it with Armyjunk's photo would seem to confirm the gun was on the northern ridge of Malinta. My guess is that the pom-pom was near the top of the stairs to the # 8 searchlight tunnel. That would make it easy for the Battery Mobile crew to evacuate their position at the onset of a heavy bombardment and quickly escape to the tunnel, too. Here is an enlarged view of the righthand side of Armyjunk's photo, showing the area above # 8 SL tunnel (left red arrow) and the stairs leading from the tunnel to the top of Malinta Hill (right red arrow): At the top of the stairs, between Armyjunk's red lines, seems to be two guns. The "gun" on the left, touching the left red line, may instead possibly be the vertical ventilation shaft for the # 8 SL tunnel (Fots, is the shaft that close to the steps and is it that wide of a hole?). The gun on the right, near the right red arrow, seems to have a more defined barrel. The barrels of these guns don't appear to point the same way as the overturned pom-pom in the PEF photo, but maybe the Japanese tried to upright it. There is also an interesting dark round object to the upper left of the left "gun". Sorry but I don't know how the pom-pom was mounted on top of Malinta, Fots, but yes I also see the mounting holes on its bottom. I wonder if there is a matching bolt pattern on a concrete pedestal near the top of the stairs above # 8 SL tunnel? For what it may be worth, here's how a pom-pom looked on the deck of the USS Pennsylvania: Okla, I'm sure you'll win that wager about Fots fine photos! Besides, it's a little chilly these nights in downtown TulsaTown for the birthday suit . * * * * * * Late addendum!! I just came across a facinating history of Battery Mobile by Lieutenant Colonel E. L. Barr on this website: www.corregidor.org/ca/btty_mobile/mobile_2.htmSome highlights: One section of the 1st platoon was positioned on top of Malinta Hill "above the searchlight tunnel". The pom-pom gun had a crew of twelve. Interestingly, Barr gives April 30th as the day the pom-pom met its fate, rather the 29th as stated by the Belotes. From afar, Barr saw a fire raging mid-morning atop Malinta Hill near the gun. According to him, Friedline and four others died of burns later that afternoon. Barr inspected the position's ruins and said that "the pom-pom and the other machine gun pit were totally destroyed". Also, an engineer crew was sent to extricate bodies caught in the wreckage of the searchlight tunnel.
|
|
|
Post by The Phantom on Nov 13, 2010 22:11:04 GMT 8
What an interesting thread!
The photo from Armyjunk answers many questions. And poses many more........
Fots and I already have some planned expeditions on Malinta and the Tail to verify some locations from books read.
Your photo Armyjunk, and your info Chad put us closer to our search areas.
A few comments on your Photo Armyjunk. I have never seen one with it's breath of field connecting so many historical locations of interest in one panoramic shot.
It shows everything laid bare unlike today. The locations Fots notes caught my eye also.
My comments.....
1/ The south shore road is a minor road with little traffic as compared to the road going to Topside going around the hillside to the north, above the trolley tracks. Of course the south shore road ends after bombing in 1942 as its grade collapsed into the ravine after about half a mile?
2/ There is also a small road from the intersection going down to the beach area, or was it part of old San Jose town? Maybe there still but covered in kudsu.........
3/ I don't see any rails on the trolley tracks?............
4/ The massive concrete revetment holding up the road going around to the north is still there, and seems more massive if you are below it on the old Trolley track through-way which it appears to protect.
5/ Just off your photo, opposite the revetment, is Battery Martin. It is pretty well preserved. Not many used to get down here. It took me hours coming from the west. Karl did it in minutes by coming down at the eastern end of the revetment! I found a 30 lb pulley with large hook attacked under a piece of corrugated metal near the revetment. Probably used in Battery Martins shell room.
6/ There appears to be something below the East Defense Officers Station in the photo but it has since slid down the hill.
7/ It appears the concrete buildings shown at the bottom of the roadbed and trolley tracks to the north, are still in use, being lived in by some of the workers on the island.
8/ I wonder where all the debris came from at the base of the Spanish Fort? It's as if the island cleanup has started and it is being pushed over the fort by bulldozer in this area.
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Nov 14, 2010 0:26:24 GMT 8
Hi Phantom, good comments there. The building below the road and trolley line was named the “Instrument Storehouse Casemate”. Today part of it is used for storage. Some of the security guys do live beside the building. “Normal” tourists don’t go to this area so it is not cleaned up very well. Just the way I like it. Instrument Storehouse Casemate. The concrete walkway is part of a (well hidden) shortcut from the road going to Topside down to the North Dock area. This room looks like it was burned. Generator room?
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Nov 14, 2010 0:29:57 GMT 8
Hi Chad, Your guess for the gun location sounds quite reasonable. Near the top of the stairs is a supplementary command post (bathtub) that has a rounded end. I have never noticed any pedestal around here but I’ll have a better look next time I am back to Corregidor. It may be just off the path leading to the top of the steps. Supplementary Command Post close to the steps The hole for the airshaft does not seem to be as big as what we see in the photo but perhaps part of that black area are dark shadows making it look bigger. This is an afternoon photo when the sun is behind the shaft and the SL #8 tunnel. Note that the tunnel entrance and parts of the eastern hillside are also in the shade. One thing I remember is that when you are inside the SL #8 tunnel and looking from the rear straight out towards the entrance, the center view is of the northern coast and Kindley Field, not more easterly. What I am trying to say is that the tunnel is angled a bit to the north (NE) and not directly east where you would see the curved tail of Corregidor. I say this because I think the airshaft entrance may be the dark spot to the left of the left arrow (below the vertical line/pole). As you walk along the top of Malinta heading north, you first come to the airshaft on the left. Next you see the command post on the left and finally the steps as the path curves towards the right. As Phantom says, another trip up the hill is already planned.
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Nov 14, 2010 1:18:08 GMT 8
Armyjunk, those red lines and arrows oriented me very well with the structures on the ridge on top of Malinta Hill. However, can I ask you to post that incredible photo again without them? It might enable me to get a better enlargement of what seems to be two guns in their pits at the top of the stairs to searchlight # 8. Thanks, Chad After studying Armyjunk's photo and remembering all the corrugated metal strewn over the ridge when I saw it in '87, I became curious. According to Colonel Barr most of Battery Mobile's gun pits on Corregidor were lined with sandbags that had become rotten and torn. In early February they remedied that by removing corrugated iron roofing from destroyed buildings and installing it in the pits. Phantom, I'd like to hear what you and Fots find on your expedition to Malinta and THE TAIL. Maybe you might come across Lieutenant Lawrence's gun positions beginning about 1/2 mile east of North Point. I thought I found them in 1986 but was probably mistaken. According to Lawrence's 1963 letter to the Belotes, his sector started at the Rifle Butt concrete wall about 250 yards from Kindley Field and went to the tail. His 75mm's were fixed to circular railroad rails (might the rails still be there?) that provided about a 225 degree field of fire. The 37mm cannon, .50 and .30 caliber machine guns were dug in about 25 feet above the shoreline with log and earth roofs overhead (ruins still there?). If you haven't read his letter it is reproduced on this website. It's a two page letter: corregidor.org/chs_lawrence/lawrence_1.htmThe 1941 Emergency Defense Map shows one observation post on a 50 foot high ridge roughly 700-1000 feet to the left of East Point, but there are no gun positions shown between North Point and East Point. "Saga" shows Lawrence's approximate gun positions on page 163. If you don't happen to have a copy with you I will be glad to e-mail it. I'm not trying to change the thread here, but while mentioning the "Tail" this is from "Philippine Expeditionary Force", 1943. What's sort of remarkable is that the Japanese map shows landings almost all the way to East Point while US maps frequently don't. Ok, back to Malinta Hill!
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Nov 14, 2010 2:38:04 GMT 8
Fots, your explanation makes perfect sense to me. If the tunnel is aligned in a more NE direction, that would suggest that the airshaft is displaced further left than the "gun" that touches the left red line. As you said, the dark round spot may indeed be the airshaft.
Also, I have been experimenting with photo enlargements on Photobucket. I'm very new to this, but when the area around the stairs is greatly enlarged both "guns" seem to project images that, though they are very unfocused, look to be above ground level. That makes me think that the left one is not the airshaft, too. The one on the right could be the "bathtub" supplementary command post you mentioned. If the picture could be reposted without the red lines a better look in that spot might be possible.
|
|
|
Post by armyjunk on Nov 14, 2010 4:04:34 GMT 8
I'm on the road, be back in a few days
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Nov 14, 2010 21:17:14 GMT 8
Hi Chad,
The east end is an interesting area for sure. Last year Karl and I walked to the end of Corregidor’s tail and back. Grasses are very thick and high in places so it is difficult to see much. There is also a definite snake hazard.
At that time we never noticed the defenses mentioned by Lawrence but I wouldn’t mind having a look again. I know of one concrete wall that is built almost completely across the island. It is located east of the airfield. Unfortunately east of the wall is the grassy part.
It would be great if you could send me the map on page 163 showing the gun positions. It could save a lot of search time. I’ll send you my e-mail address.
|
|
|
Post by okla on Nov 14, 2010 21:35:34 GMT 8
Hey Fots....As you know from our previous discussions about the east end/Kindley Field/landing beach area, this whole area intrigues me. It is actually the most strategically important part of Corregidor, but the most overlooked. Not too scenic, I guess, but certainly that day back in May 1942, it surely was the epicenter of our position in the Western Pacific. Hope you take another, closer look at this hallowed ground. Cheers.
|
|