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Post by victor on Feb 1, 2010 5:13:55 GMT 8
Hi Fots, I'm actually the wrong person to ask about snakes. I'm deathly afraid of them, which is why I asked you about snakes in another thread. I'm so fascinated by off the beaten track historical hiking and exploring trips and envy you and Karl a lot. Only one problem... I'm afraid of snakes and these places you visit have them However another Bataan historical explorer told me that you're supposed to just stop and stay still and wait for the snake to scurry away. They don't want to be bothered anymore than we do. Just try not to step on one. Okla, I'm always conflicted on what to do with relics. I would want to get them (the safe ones) for display. I'd do one of several things... keep them, put them in a displayable format or frame for exhibit in living history displays we set up. Or donate them to the museum in Corregidor if found in Corregidor... it depends on where and in what context the relic is found. I'd certainly post and display it online so that more people could view and learn about it. I'd certainly hold it very dear and share it with others. One example is these relics from Bataan that someone sent me. (the same guy who adviced me about snakes since he encountered Philippine cobras in Bataan) click for bigger This is a picture from the Philippine Scouts reunion at Long Beach, CA last year. This is a 26th Cavalry veteran (Dan Figuracion) examining the cavalry artifact display we had. But notice in the background near his armpit, my dug up relics displayed on the table. That generated a lot of historical discussions
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Post by okla on Feb 1, 2010 9:10:27 GMT 8
Hey Vic....Your view of what to do with relics pretty well sums up my take on it. Do you remember just where those items on the Abucay Line were deposited in the brush? Those type things, methinks, belong on display somewhere and your basement,etc seems more appropriate than sinking into the muck in the jungle,etc. I,as mentioned somewhere on your site or this one, found a "minnie" ball on the Shiloh Battlefield. I should have turned it into the Park HQ, but thinking that they probably had a file cabinet full of them, it sits proudly on my display table in my den. My brother in law found a Yankee Cavalry spur in an excavation at a contruction site near Yellow Tavern, Virginia. As I said in the other post, bro in law has the sense of history of a fence post thus he gave it to me. It also rests on my table. I have a Japanese bayonet that obviously has spent many years encased in mud, etc as the wooden handle is all but rotted off and the blade is so fragile that a child could break it in two. With my fertile imagination I wonder if it has shed blood in regular combat, bloodied allied POWs or slaughtered civilians in Manila, Hong Kong or maybe Nanking. I will never know since the elderly woman who gave it to me is long deceased as is her husband. She told me when she gave it to me that it was from World War I and I assumed that it was Amer, Brit, German or French for many years until I showed it to a curator at a gun museum and he immediately identified it as Japanese. Now I have it hanging on my den wall and I often look up at it and wonder what tales it could tell. Maybe I have spun this yarn to you in our past conflabs. If so, disregard. Cheers. Postscript....I would, indeed, be a privilege to speak to Trooper Dan. What stories he could tell.
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Post by victor on Feb 1, 2010 19:37:57 GMT 8
Hi Okla, Those little buckles and relics I have are not from the Abucay Line. They were found by a friend around Trail 29, west of Mt. Samat. A little more west of the area Karl just hiked recently. That "rock" looks eerily like a helmet though... It did look like a doughboy helmet at first glance but it could be an rusted old Japanese helmet that got fused in with the debris after all the years of being there. That it looks like a rock now. See this example of them:
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Post by okla on Feb 2, 2010 3:30:44 GMT 8
Hey Vic....I thought from the git go that if that object was a helmet that it looked more like a Japanese one. More rounded than the Sergeant York models. If so, it is in pretty good shape it would appear. We gotta get Fots back in that hole to see for sure. The Abucay Line relics that I referred to were the one that the local farmer showed you when he was showing you around. The were in a gulley area and you guys left them there. If I remember there was a grenade or two and, of course, .30 cal cartridges. I may be in error, but if memory serves that's what you fellows were looking at. That, indeed, is quite a haul of relics depicted in the photo.
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Post by fots2 on Feb 2, 2010 10:43:45 GMT 8
Great display there Victor. That ‘rock’ we are talking about is certainly worth a closer look if I am back that way.
If I found anything valuable I would prefer to leave it where it fell but that is not very realistic these days. It would certainly fall into ‘treasure hunter’ or ‘scrapper’ hands eventually. Some of the ideas you have sound best in that situation.
Last August EXO and I were walking near the Engineer Ravine Power Plant when one of the local guys approached us. He had rusty old hand grenades and bayonets for sale. Fortunately I only collect photos. It makes me wonder though, what artifacts are being removed from the island to never be seen again?
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Post by fots2 on Feb 2, 2010 10:54:25 GMT 8
P.S. to okla.
Thank-you for your comments on these treks. You are much more aware of the history of what I am looking at than me and it is great to let us all know more of the details.
If you (or anyone else) sees any ‘incorrect’ comments, feel free to let me know so history remains as accurate as we can retell it. Doing a search on a subject often results in conflicting information. Sometime it is difficult to filter through to the truth.
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Post by EXO on Feb 2, 2010 21:42:48 GMT 8
As this article is of continuing interest, I have now included it in the permanent collection of articles in the REDISCOVERING CORREGIDOR section of the CORREGIDOR THEN and NOW website.
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Post by victor on Feb 3, 2010 19:39:24 GMT 8
Wow that's great, thanks!
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Post by okla on Feb 4, 2010 1:57:19 GMT 8
Hey EXO....This is a good thing.
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Post by fots2 on Mar 6, 2011 8:30:34 GMT 8
UpdateNote: refer to the map at the top of this report A few months ago I went back to the area north of Kindley Field to complete this trip report. Due to rain, I-F-3 (Sector 1, Field gun, Gun #3) had not been visited earlier. The map symbol shows this position to have had two guns with a center magazine. This time I approached the area from over Denver Hill and then around the west end of the airfield. I reached the north coast just west of Cavalry Point and walked east towards the position. A grassy spot past the north-west end of Kindley Field. The view of the north coastline not far from Cavalry Point. The cliff is about 10 to 15 feet high in this area. Using my GPS, I could see that I should be at the site by now but I continued on anyway. Still nothing so I went further until I was at I-M-7 (Sector 1, Machine gun, Gun #7). Somehow I had passed I-F-3. I was a bit baffled as to how I could miss a concrete structure along the coast only 260 feet west of where I was standing. Guessing that perhaps the position was actually built slightly inland from the coast, I moved 50 feet south and walked west back towards I-F-3. The GPS Track feature was turned on so I knew exactly where I was. In a few minutes I was at and then past where the position should have been. It can't be further inland as I saw the road parallel to the coastline. A few chunks of thick concrete were lying around but nothing substantial. All along the north-west part of the airfield, the terrain has a gentle slope uphill. Above the beach cliff there are a couple little hills but nothing much. However, there is one exception that stands out like a sore thumb. It is very unusual. I came across a horse shoe shaped ravine with the open part facing the cliff. This was strange as no small stream or river had created it. It is flat, dry at the bottom and too large to be a crater. It is located where the gun position should be. Standing in the bottom of the ravine looking inland (south). This view covers roughly the middle third of the ravine. I am almost 6ft tall so you can estimate the height of the banks. Was it man-made? I remembered EXO telling me about a tunnel near the airfield that could hold a truck. Perhaps the entrance had been sealed so in an attempt to find some evidence, I went up on top of the inland (south) side looking for an air vent. None was found, just an old road close by. I wandered around some more before heading back home. No luck this day. (Well, no snakes so it was not all bad). This might have been the end of the report but some information posted recently caught my attention. It was an excerpt from the history of Battery M (Mobile) 60th Coast Artillery. The complete report is here: corregidor.org/ca/btty_mobile/mobile_2.htm May 3rd, 1942. The afternoon barrage was right on schedule again and continued with the usual vigor. Suddenly about mid-afternoon our tunnel was rocked by a tremendous explosion. Sand fell down from the roof in places and the shoring shifted slightly. We thought the end had come this time for sure. We were all thrown to the floor and were stunned for a few moments. We couldn't see anything for the air all around us was thick with dust. We hadn't heard planes, the roar of bombs or the whine of a 240.We didn't learn until that evening that the dynamite cache just about two hundred yards north of us on Cavalry Point had blown up. Six hundred cases of dynamite and some TNT had been stored there. The blast blew a crater big enough to hide a house in.I-F-3 is at Cavalry Point, the only structure suitable for ordinance storage was the magazine at I-F-3, the explosion was at Cavalry Point, I-F-3 is missing, a 'crater big enough to hide a house' is there now. The 'ravine' is actually a huge crater where I-F-3 used to be. Seems logical to me. What do you guys think?
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