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Post by beirutvet on May 18, 2021 9:24:58 GMT 8
'Clash of the Carriers' The True Story of the Marianas Turkey Shoot of WWII.
Most with a passing knowledge of WWII in the Pacific has heard of the Marianas Turkey Shoot, but what do we really know ?
This book gets right down to the nuts and bolts for those few days as no book I have seen. It details not only the carriers and their compliment of aircraft but the individual squadrons of these carries and the men who flew into history from their flight decks. It even traces how the event got it's nickname Turkey Shoot.
Little does one realize that it wasn't just one big melee but multiple flights from the Japanese side with multiple allied flights to intercept them. It chronicles not only the make up of each flight from the enemy but how many and what kind of aircraft were sent up against them.
Then of course there is the account of the Mission Beyond Darkness where Admiral Mitscher won the undying love and devotion of his aviators for all time.
The exact butchers bill will never be know, but the book gives every effort to give an accounting based on what is known today. The American losses are very well documented but on the Japanese side is where the doubt lies. Even Vice Admiral Ozawa did not know the whole price paid as many of his pilots and planes had orders to attack the Americans and then try to land base on Guam or elsewhere. He had no way of knowing how many of them made it there and survived.
Tillman's writing style takes a little getting used to and made for a few difficult spots to interpret his meaning. But overall a fine book that will hold your interest throughout.
***3/4 Recommended
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Post by beirutvet on May 18, 2021 9:00:29 GMT 8
EXO
Great find!
Could you perhaps give us a little back story on the piece about 6 victory ships to be bringing home the troops? There seems to be a hand printed note (I presume your father's) where it is written "Any good eh!" across the article. Was it perhaps in joy that one of these would be bringing him home?
I also got a charge out of the item about the bugging of Yamashita's HQ. Was this confirmed and did it have any effect at his trial?
_____
Beirutvet, I'll answer what I can here. My father had been attached to the Americans since Nadzab, and was supplied by them. By Manila, about all he had left of his Australian uniform kit was an old slouch hat, the rest of his gear was US supply. So he had actually hoped that he'd be leaving Manila with the unit, whether that was to Tokyo or back with them via the West Coast. He was disappointed when his unit departed first, and it was neither, and so there were a relative handful of the Aussies left in Manila, with no priority. So his comment addressed the many promises given to them, largely with an 'I'll believe it when it actually happens, and not a second before" attitude. He often criticised the Australian Army for its "pinchpenny attitude." There was often a "bloody" in that, too!
I know a little of the backstory concerning Chick Parson's SPYRON, and Col. Smith was connected with Parsons. It's an intriguing possibility, I'll admit. I'll readily believe that the cells where the Japanese senior officers were kept pending trial were bugged. I'll ask Peter Parsons.
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Post by beirutvet on May 15, 2021 20:09:30 GMT 8
Thank you Karl, for for bringing up this rarely debated point. For years we have heard of the tragic internment of Japanese Americans on the west coast. And it was tragic that these presumably loyal Americans were stripped of everything they had and put into relocation camps. But where exactly did their loyalties lie?
I have read of many accounts of occupying Japanese forces being led around by native Japanese residents being shown critical installations, being seen providing important intelligence about allied forces and dispositions and in general aiding and abetting enemy forces. And of course, actually joining the occupying forces as members of it's military.
How many of us have questions to this day about Richard Sakakida?
Yes, at the end of the war these people should have had their property returned to them. But after all, we were at war!
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Post by beirutvet on May 13, 2021 11:32:35 GMT 8
EXO
Another fabulous find!
Incredibly detailed, but one thing that jumped out at me was the depiction of Mile Long Barracks not as one long continuous building but 5 separate buildings. If this was mainly from aerial recon, I think it would have been clear this was one building.
But then again, after some bombing it may have appeared to be a number of buildings in line. Fascinating rabbit hole this entire thread!
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Post by beirutvet on May 13, 2021 11:12:26 GMT 8
You Go Get Em, Karl!
They claim to be a forum but usually act as publisher. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
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Post by beirutvet on May 13, 2021 10:55:55 GMT 8
rlbj25
Thank you for the remarks and you are correct, it is a powerful read.
I had not heard of the book 'The First Team', I will look into it.
If it is not too much trouble I wish you would send me a personal message and let me know what that pilot had to say. I am very interested in hearing what his comments were.
I see too many times Halsey criticized for "mistakes" at Leyte but the criticism is most always out of context.
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Post by beirutvet on Apr 22, 2021 0:39:08 GMT 8
Hello Raven316
This book is on my 'to read' list and I have heard good things about it. But it is far enough down on the list that it may take me some time to get to it.
If you have read it, please feel free to start a new thread and review it for us by giving us your thoughts and maybe a highlight or 2 to peak our interest. That is what this section is for, so dive in head first, the water is plenty deep.
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Post by beirutvet on Apr 18, 2021 12:39:13 GMT 8
EXO
BTW, I am thoroughly enjoying this new section 'MANILA INTRIGUE'! Really good stuff here!
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Post by beirutvet on Apr 18, 2021 12:34:15 GMT 8
EXO
Cryptography: One Story Is Good, Until Another Is Told. Fabulous read!
I have never seen such detail about Purple, Magic and JN 25. One could get lost so easily in this maze of deliberate construction. I especially liked how you burned through a lot of revisionism to keep pulling on the thread to expose it.
On page 23 it is stated that Roosevelt was kept in the dark and the person most likely behind this cover-up was _________. Any updated guesses as to who this man was?
There is also something on page 22 that caught my attention. In point a) it is stated that Churchill most likely withheld information about the December 7 attack to come. And in b) had he alerted him, FDR would have obviously alerted his commanders and "as a consequence the British would have had to have faced the invasion of Malaya alone". I don't doubt that it is possible, as stated earlier in the text, that through compartmentalization in the Brit crypto world it never got to where it needed to go. But I wonder if this conspiracy's cause was as stated. If FDR DID alert his commanders as feared, wouldn't that have saved a good portion of the fleet to help thwart the Japs on all fronts? Not telling him meant the sure destruction of precious allied ships. FDR, being forewarned, could not have stopped the attack and the end result would be the same: the Brits get the US into the war whether they were warned or not.
As it turns out the brits did have to face this invasion alone in part because the US forces were not alerted, and as a result decimated, and unable to come their aid.
You have obviously done more research on this than most, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
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Post by beirutvet on Apr 16, 2021 11:58:21 GMT 8
"The Last Stand Of The Tin Can Sailors' The Extraordinary World Was II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour. By James D Hornfischer
I could talk about this book all day long and still feel like I did not do it justice. And not just because it is well written, I have read 3 of his books and this is the most well written of them I have found. No, I can't do it proper justice for as the sub-tittle states, it is the U.S. Navy's finest hour.
This book covers the portion of the Battle of Leyte Gulf known as the 'Battle Off Samar'. It is a story of dedication, perseverance and bravery the likes of which are found but once in a generation. And made more spectacular for its concentration in this battle. It chronicles the tale of a small task unit called Taffy 3 consisting of 6 small escort carriers (CVE), 3 destroyers (DD)and four destroyer escorts (DE).
Through a political reshuffling of commands born out of MacArthur's egotistical desire to control and take credit for all he could, the navy was split into two separate fleets, the Third fleet and the Seventh fleet. so selfishly were they controlled that they were not even allowed to communicate directly with each other. Instead communication from one fleet to the other had to go through MacArthur's HQ before being routed to the other fleet, a process that added many hours to the time of transmission to the arrival of the message. This was a large but not the only contributing factor that lead this small task unit, armed with nothing larger than torpedoes and 5" guns, to be thrust into going toe to toe with the Imperial Japanese Navy sporting 4 battleships, 4 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 11 destroyers. The 11 destroyers alone would have been enough to completely annihilate Taffy 3. And go toe to toe they did!
The book starts at the christening of the USS Johnston commanded by Commander Ernest E Evans who will posthumously be awarded the Medal of Honor, and many of her crew who help tell the tale of battle.
Among them is the gunnery officer Robert Hagen, who in a previous engagement off Saipan spied through his aiming device, a Japanese officer on the beach waving his sword trying to rally his men. Upon seeing this Lt. Hagen thought "Why not", slewed all five 5" guns on his new target, closed the firing key and all guns fired at once obliterating his target. He then heard his Captain call up to him "Mr. Hagen, that was very good shooting, but in the future, try not to waste so much ammunition on one individual".
During the first tortuous minutes of this engagement off Samar, when the odds of victory, or even survival were non-existent, the captain of the USS Samuel B. Roberts, a destroyer escort that will be sunk that same day got on the intercom. Captain Copeland told his crew, "A large Japanese fleet has been contacted. They are fifteen miles away and headed in our direction. They are believed to have 4 battleships, eight cruisers and a number of destroyers. This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."
Aboard the USS Johnston, Captain Evans was heard bellowing, "All hands to general quarters. Prepare to attack major portion of the Japanese fleet. All engines ahead flank. Commence making smoke and stand by for torpedo attack. Left full rudder." This last command as everyone hearing this knew, the new course was straight at the enemy fleet. Lt. Hagen remembers saying to himself, "Please Skipper, don't let this ship go down before we launch our torpedoes."
All of the escort carries immediately launched all the aircraft they could. Most of the ones that were armed had ordinance for supporting the land invasion, not fighting heavily armored ships of the line. Many aircraft had no ordinance at all but launched anyway. The unarmed planes along with ones that had long since expended their ordinance repeatedly made dummy dive bomb and torpedo runs in an effort to make the Japanese ships hastily maneuver to avoid the attack. And they succeeded in doing this time and time again. Virtual suicide runs to at least delay the larger ships from overrunning the U.S. ships which they could easily do.
I will not spoil the rest of this story for you, READ THIS BOOK! It made this Marine proud of his Marine Corps naval heritage.
***** HIGHLY Recommended
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