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Post by fots2 on May 13, 2013 14:42:40 GMT 8
Hi chadhill, Good information there. I seem to remember batteryboy telling me once that the gun seen beside the Pasig River mortar is a 3”AA gun. The damaged roof of Magazine #3 is twisted a bit so that the Pit ‘B’ mortar you can see from the outside and the Pit ‘B’ mortar inside the magazine are BOTH supporting the roof now. Interior room walls are almost all destroyed with chunks of them blown all the way to the far wall. Here is a drawing of Pit ‘B’ and Magazine #3 showing the locations of the two mortars in question. Note the two Xs. (The interior 'X' is a guess but reasonably close).
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Post by wwalker on May 14, 2013 8:36:39 GMT 8
Hello Everyone,
The photo of the GI's coming up the embankment with the debris appears to have a 12" mortar barrel in the debris. The piece beside the mortar looks to me like part of a 3" AA gun. Could it be that these two pieces in the photograph came from the golf course after the surrender? We have one credible source saying a 12" mortar barrel landed on the golf course, and we already know that the golf course had 3" AA guns from Battery Globe. (Extra note: the half wheel with notches sitting up looks like the elevating rack for the 3" gun) Perhaps this was a failed attempt by the Japanese of transporting this metal from the golf course on Corregidor to somewhere else for scrap or some other purpose. They could have been going to use the metal for their own war effort and lost their load somehow. It is also known that the Japanese launched a clean-up effort on Corregidor after the May 06 surrender attempting to salvage anything they could. Many of the guns were sabotaged by the coast artillerymen before the surrender rendering them useless.
I think most of the deaths from the explosion at Geary occurred in the right magazine. I was told that the men that were in the chamber nearest Pit A in the right-side magazine were the ones killed, which would make sense. There were 4 men from Battery H trapped in the second chamber (pretty sure I'm correct on that) from the left that had to be drilled out. One was Sgt. Blanford and the other Pfc. Robert Erdwin. Mr. Erdwin told me that one of the men trapped with him died after they took him to the hospital. Erdwin had a broken arm. He could not remember the names of the other two men trapped with him and Sgt. Blanford.
From looking at the diagram Fots posted showing the left-side magazine, its a good thing the men weren't on that side, otherwise it would have taken alot of lives judging by the mortars being shot into the side of the magazine from the blast. Credit can be given to the commanding officer Cpt. Thomas W. Davis and the pit officer 1 Lt. Harry Custer Minsker for moving all the men to that right side magazine, which afforded them some cover from a hill. For such a tremendous explosion, it really is amazing that there weren't more killed.
When I finish my piece on this stuff I will make it available. Thanks to everyone for the encouragement.
WW
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Post by fots2 on May 14, 2013 17:01:07 GMT 8
Hi WW, Good post. Here are some comments for you. The gun beside the mortar in that Pasig River photo does look like a 3”AA gun to me also. You have a good suggestion as to the source of both guns. Looking at that gun from left to right, I see two tubes side-by-side (on the left), the main gun barrel (in the middle) and a short/larger diameter tube (on the right). Compare it to a photo of 3” AA guns practice firing in front of Battery Cheney. The three sets of tubes look similar to me. Even the elevating rack is below the side-by-side tubes where it would be if it is a match to the other photo.
“I think most of the deaths from the explosion at Geary occurred in the right magazine. I was told that the men that were in the chamber nearest Pit A in the right-side magazine were the ones killed, which would make sense”.Me too. The wall of this magazine facing Pit ‘A’ is blown into the magazine.
“There were 4 men from Battery H trapped in the second chamber (pretty sure I'm correct on that) from the left that had to be drilled out”.The second chamber ‘does’ has a drilled and chipped hole large enought for a man to squeeze through. It is no random hole as you can see rough drill bit marks and chip marks.
“From looking at the diagram Fots posted showing the left-side magazine, its a good thing the men weren't on that side, otherwise it would have taken alot of lives judging by the mortars being shot into the side of the magazine from the blast”.The left-side magazine is much more destroyed inside that the right-side magazine. In the right-side magazine, only the chamber facing Pit ‘A’ is heavily damaged. The next one is partially damaged and the other two are in good shape. In the left-side magazine, all interior walls are destroyed with the exception of part of the far left-side chamber. Without the two mortars for support, most of this magazine's roof would be sitting on the floor today.
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Post by chadhill on May 14, 2013 19:07:53 GMT 8
Lots of good points brought out here, guys.
Fots, thanks for plotting the location of the two Pit B mortars embedded in magazine # 3. I've been looking at the section of the 1932 map you posted back at the very beginning of this thread. Can you point out where on the ridge the Pit B mortar is? Thanks, Chad.
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Post by fots2 on May 14, 2013 22:30:30 GMT 8
Hi Chad, I copied the map from the beginning of this thread and put an ‘X’ on it for you. The mortar is a bit east of the center line of the ridge and roughly half way between Magazine #3 and EG-2-3. For about two years now there has been a walking trail along this ridge so the mortar is seen quite often. You can easily see the narrow road to Battery Crockett from up there.
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Post by chadhill on May 15, 2013 11:23:01 GMT 8
Thanks, fots. Another piece of the puzzle solved! I went back and reviewed the Japanese newsreel again. This time I noticed something else about the position of the Pit B mortar in the road to Battery Crockett, and have a few questions about the concrete wall lining the road between Geary and Crockett. Here is another snapshot of the mortar. What is interesting in this view is that the end of the concrete wall can be seen at the upper left. I do not see any rubble at the end of the wall indicating it was destroyed. As we know, today the mortar is in the bend of the lined road, shown here in the distance. It is obvious the gun is not near the end of the concrete wall. (photo courtesy fots2) Curious, I checked the 1936 map. It seems to show a wall extending NW along the trolley line past Pit B (the 1932 map shows it too, though fainter). Can anyone say if this wall extended that far north in 1942? Is it there today? Trying to be sure I wasn't misreading the map, I reviewed photos posted earlier in this thread by fots. The ones below were taken from Pit A, looking NE towards the trolley line intersection. In the background it would seem there is a wall. If the entire wall did indeed exist and was intact on 2 May 1942, the Pit B mortar shown near the end of the wall in the newsreel would have been blown in a much different direction (northward) than the other three, which is interesting. As we know, one of the Pit A guns was blasted northward too, though towards the golf course. If this is all so it begs the question: why would anyone have taken such great pain to move a heavy, wrecked gun down a dead-end road to its present position? Couldn't it have just been pushed out of the way, off to the side at the end of the concrete wall? Just another SWAG...could be seeing more pink elephants...
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Post by okla on May 15, 2013 21:16:54 GMT 8
Hey Chad....The reality is, your "pink Elephants" most usually turn out to be "legit". Just sayin'. Cheers.
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Post by pdh54 on May 15, 2013 21:17:26 GMT 8
FWIW An excerpt from the book Corregidor GI by Staff Sergeant Jerome B. Leek. "A few days later, First Sgt. Dewey Brady, of D-60th, was killed. This was a terrific blow not only for the men of his battery and regiment, but also for everyone knowing him. About the same time that Brady gave his all, tall red-headed Floyd Goode (Saline Grove,
Texas) of Headquarters, attached to the H-60th, was killed at Battery Ramsey. A piece of cement, flying through the air from a bombing of
Battery Geary, struck him in the stomach, killing him almost instantly." Patty Addition: "HARTFORD" Battery “H” 60th coast artillery (a.a.) by Capt. Warren A. Star
On May 2, Battery Geary, 12-inch Seacoast Mortar Battery, was blown up due to the enemy artillery fire penetrating the powder magazines. Flying
concrete from this explosion, landed in our battery position. One five hundred pound piece landed on a fox hole within the battery position, injuring
one Pvt. Floyd E. Goode, to the extent that he died on the way to the Hospital. Another large block of about 10 tons landed between the director
and height finder and buried itself level with the ground.
Full report can be found at corregidor.org/ca/btty_hartford/hartford_2.htm
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Post by fots2 on May 16, 2013 0:13:32 GMT 8
Good info, thanks Patty.
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Post by fots2 on May 16, 2013 0:13:52 GMT 8
All the times I have looked at that map, I have never noticed that the wall has a bit of a turn at the end going away from the battery. Today the wall is broken and ends just before it would have made this turn. The question is, what did this wall look like in 1942 after the explosion of Magazine #2. I think I may have an answer for you and the evidence is in the 1942 Japanese newsreel snapshot that you posted. Notice the damage to the wall that you can see behind the mortar. The damage appears to be angled from top left to bottom right. The damage in the wall is not directly opposite the mortar but further along the wall (between the mortar and the end of the wall). There is also a horizontal crack in the wall to the right of the slanted damage. A repost of your snapshot. Now have a look at the following photos of the wall as seen today. We know the mortar was pushed and swung end for end towards the wall but see the damaged part between the mortar and the end of the wall? I have a feeling that the wall we see today IS the same section of wall that is seen in the 1942 snapshot. The corner piece was blown off during the explosion which confuses the issue. I modified your map with some information and assumptions. Noticing the end of the wall was a great observation Chad. I have an advantage over you in that I have hundreds of photos to refer to when there are questions. Keep coming up with your ideas please as it keeps us thinking. We either reconfirm what we think is correct or change our incorrect assumptions. Both are good things. Here are two more photos for everyone. In the above map, see the emergency command post just to the right of Battery Crockett (E-II-5)? Sitting in the rear of it is a huge chunk of concrete. It is no random chunk as it has flat edges that can be seen in the second photo. My final ‘assumption’ for today is that this piece of concrete crashed in here during the nearby Battery Geary explosion on May 02, 1942.
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