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Post by rickthelibrarian on Mar 21, 2013 9:05:08 GMT 8
C.S. Ferris, in his book on the M1917 rifle, states that as many as 220,000 M1917s were sold to the Philippine government pre-war. There were a LOT of them in the Philippines at that time. Supposedly, a couple of Japanese units were still equipped with them when the Americans returned in 1944-45.
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Post by tom3 on Apr 29, 2013 16:15:43 GMT 8
batteryboy, Im impressed, you know a lot about the small arms and aircraft used in the Philippines.
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Post by tom3 on Apr 29, 2013 17:04:21 GMT 8
1) Re .22 springfields in Bataan - They were the Model 1922s. When war broke out, Sgt. Seale of the US 31st Inf., who was also instructor of the Letran College ROTC dept., unlocked its armory and gave out the Springfield rifles Cal.22, model 1922 to the Cadets. My Father was given one w/c I inherited after. 2) Re USN Model 1917 rifles from PA stocks - I beleive that the US Navy had already Model 1917s before the war. Model 1917 rifles paid w/ philippine money, through by Gen. McArthur, were issued to PA Divisions deployed along Bataan's MLRs. Why would they give away these rifles to a rear unit? 3) Shotguns in Bataan and Corregidor - Yes. USAFFE had the pump types. Winchester model 1897s (remnants from the Moro wars), Remingtons, and H&Rs. 4) PC issued loose firearms to civiians in Bataan - They did this again in 1972 when Martial Law was declared, this time to AFP units in Mindanao. The bloodiest war fought by Filipinos against Filipinos.
Thanks batteryboy for sharing the rare pictures of USAAC and PAAC aircraft. I build and collect kit models of the planes used in the Philippines and this is great reference.
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Post by okla on Apr 29, 2013 23:05:44 GMT 8
Hey Battery....Only this morning did I read your post from back in 2012 (somehow it slipped thru the cracks) regarding the World War 1 Helmet and the fact that a few were still to be found. One instance caught my eye recently. Actual film footage of the rescue of the Cabanatuan POWs shows a single individual sporting one of these 1917 Helmets in the trek back to American lines. He doesn't appear to be one of the guerillas involved in the operation, but rather a liberated POW. I found it strange that one of the prisoners would still have one of these helmets after three years captivity. Little tidbits like this tend to run me crazy as I am sure you have picked up about me in the past. Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 22:39:27 GMT 8
Even men of FRU on Monkey Point, formed into rifle squads of 12, have M1917 Enfield rifles and shotguns.
John E. "Vince" Chamberlin (extract from "Intercept Station C"):
"Before the war began, the Fleet Radio Unit (FRU) Corregidor, had a motley collection of weapons on loan from the First Separate Battalion, U.S. Marines, at Cavite. On 10 December 1941 the Japanese Air Force completely destroyed Cavite. From where we watched on Corregidor a dense column of heavy black smoke arose 15,000 to 20,000 feet into the air with a diameter of that of Cavite. The Marines streamed over to Corregidor and became Beach Defense. However, as most arrived with only the clothes on their bodies and nothing else, they requested the return of their weapons. That reduced FRU armament to Pete Waldum's Camp Perry Model .45 Colt, my model 1911 .45 and my .22 caliber Stevens Buckhorn rifle.
A few weeks later some of our Chiefs drove our own van to the north shore of the Rock where a barge loaded with model 1917 Enfield rifles had been sunk in shallow water by Japanese bombers. They carried out case after case of these rifles until they had enough for every man in FRU. These they delivered to the tunnel where they were stored outside. Back in 1918 the guns must have been boiled in cosmoline, because even though submerged in salt water while on the barge they were too well cosmolined to rust.
Pete Waldum and I were the only two in the FRU who would admit we could field strip a rifle and clean it, so Honest John Lietwiler detailed us to clean them. It was a messy job. The cosmoline in the barrels had hardened into ropes the length of the bore, and the stocks, which were made from yellow pine instead of walnut, were so saturated that after cleaning we had to lay the rifles in the sun and let it melt out the cosmoline which we kept wiping off until the stocks were dry. When we finished Honest John issued a rifle to each officer and man.
About this time the Commandant, 16th Naval District, assigned an old time Chief Gunner, whom I believe fought against Sandino's guerrillas in Nicaragua, to be in charge of providing us with weapons. He issued to us two Marlin model 1916 machine guns intended for mounting on Navy seaplanes. At Cavite, mounts had been cast to hold the guns and each was provided with a single ammunition belt manufactured from Navy canvas. He also brought us a Browning Automatic Rifle, a Lewis machine gun and a few other goodies. In the meantime the radio operators for NPO had moved in with us. Commander Callahan, their skipper, assigned tunnel defense to some of his surplus personnel who were armed with World War I trench shotguns."
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Post by victor on May 2, 2013 2:18:17 GMT 8
I cant really say much about the Krag rounds but let me check my inventory list of ammunition on Corregidor. During the occupation, the Japanese revived the Philippine Constabulary (PC) but named it the Bureau of Constabulary. These new unit was made up of volunteers and discharged POWs from both the Phil Army and PC who were given a "new lease" by the Japanese. They were armed with the old PA uniforms, webbings and armed with M1917 Enfield rifles. Somehow the Japanese never issued them the M1917A1 steel helmets. These were sent to stockpiles and warehouses. A number of these helmets found their way to local film studios wherein Japanese propaganda movies were made with Filipino and Japanese actors against "American soldiers" (who were played in part by Spanish and Filipino mestizos). Interesting after the war, a lot of the M1917 steel helmets were still present in these studios as evidence by several films in the early 50s up to the 70s that depict scenes involving USAFFE troops. Several of the M1917 Enfield rifles made its way to ROTC units as drill rifles but with replica bolts and firing pins removed. A number of decommissioned M1903 Springfield rifles also made its way to ROTC cadets as drill and instruction rifles. Attending college at UP Diliman in the 80's, I remember seeing the Rayadillo honor battalion cadets drill with honest to goodness Springfield 03's. Not the dummy replicas we used in high school. There were also Garands and I remember seeing a .50 cal that a couple of cadets were disassembling in the Corps of Cadets office (DCMT). ---- Batteryboy, I never thought about asking you but you might know. I've been trying for years to find out the name of a Filipino movie from the 70's (or late 60's but I remember watching it on afternoon TV in the 70's) that was a WW2 Bataan movie. I think the main character was Vic Vargas (but I'm not sure). He was a Phil. Scout and he had an anting-anting medallion charm that made him invulnerable. In the end when they were trying to escape Bataan and paddle away on a boat, he tried to delay the enemy but somehow his anting-anting got snagged and was left on the boat. He then went back to fight the Japanese but this time he was not invulnerable anymore and he was killed. He had a love interest in the movie of course, and again I'm not sure who she was (Lotis Key?). Do you by any chance remember what this movie was and who the actors were? Thanks. Victor
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Post by batteryboy on May 13, 2013 6:59:06 GMT 8
Hi Victor,
Yes I remember that movie vividly and during summer break, it was always shown at either 2pm or 3pm. It was titled "I Shall Return" or it was retitled in such a way that it would be catchy. Vic Vargas appeared in a lot of WW2 movies. His leading lady was Sophia Moran as Lotis key was still to young for the role. His buddy was Jing Abalos. I did a quick search and viola, it was made in 1973.
Movies done in the 50s - 70s involved the use of surplus WW2 material. Even the comedy king Dolphy whose film "Mokong" had a funny segment about his service in Bataan with Max Alvarado as his Sgt. They were armed with pretty good guns like the Thompson, Sprngfield and maybe a few Enfields.
Its nice to get a copy of these films just to look at the equipment they used.
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Post by victor on May 18, 2013 12:03:20 GMT 8
That's it, that's the movie. Thanks... now how to find it...
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Post by The Phantom on May 23, 2013 5:59:58 GMT 8
The movie, 'SANUGAN ANG SAMAR" (THE BURNING OF SAMAR,1974?) .........
I played a Lieutenant, wearing 1899 uniform and equipment?, leading a patrol though the jungle. My troops were getting picked off one by one behind me until, ALL ALONE, I stepped in a rope trap and I was pulled to the top of the canopy. (Ramon Revilla and a very pretty Filipina co star were on the set and I got to meet them.)
How it happened.
I was in Manila when a casting director came looking for extras for the days shooting at the pension house I was staying in. I said, what the hell, be in a movie, sure why not. So I got in a bus with several other Kano's, whites, 4 of my fellow actors, had been on leave from a Swedish ship in harbor, and were still pretty drunk. They spoke no English.
3 were WWII veterans who lived in the P.I,. full time. They did it all the time they said. We were driven into the jungle behind Manila, on the slopes by a stream. We were dressed in WWI uniforms. The director looked us over and decided to make me the Lieutenant, cool I'm an officer....... Good for another reason, as some of those behind me, 3 I think, were pulled under water in a deep mountain stream by guerrillas. That scene was repeated 3 times with dry shirts for the wet ones. After I lost all of my patrol, I was cautiously walking up the slope when the director shouts, "CUT!"
I had to take off my coat and hat, sword and pistol with belt, and give them to an extra, who I was requested to help pull up into the tree top with a long rope. I didn't tell my then girlfriend, now my wife, that I had been in a Tagalog movie,I just said that it was time I saw a Tagalog movie to help me with my language skills.
She said fine, so we went to the movie, me not knowing if I was really in it or not. Well what do you know, the movie opened with my face, as I was leading the patrol up the jungle trail. She went ballistic, "that's you!" she said out loud,............ and told me to stay away from those MOVIE woman.
If you have read anything about the Philippine American war of 1898 you know Samar was a bad place to be back then. I have tried unsuccessfully to get a copy of the movie to show my kids and grand-kids, me with the long hair and huge sideburns of the 70's, priceless........... To much information? Off topic?
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Post by Registrar on May 23, 2013 7:09:07 GMT 8
No way am I going to call you "off topic" on that one Phantom! You're stuck with it, mate!
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