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Post by Registrar on Aug 5, 2008 23:45:59 GMT 8
I have an “E” Company, 503d PRCT trooper who is on the 503d Honor Roll at corregidor.org/taps/control/kia_full_listing.htm. Like many of his 503d PRCT Brothers, he is buried in Manila American Cemetery. He was killed during the Negros campaign. The ABMC database of the 503 PIR buried in Manila has the following: WILSON WILLIAM C, SSGT, 6661200, OH , 25-Apr-45, F 6 87, ML. A sharp eyed member, Daniel MacRaild, who is tracking Ohio men of the 503d for a book, has cross-referenced our Honor Roll entry with the NARA database and comes up with a Serial Number 15018243 which shows the same name and, to all intents and purposes, appears to be one and the same man. What’s more, the NARA S/N search doesn’t yield any result for the 6661200 number. So, the “thick plottens” as I like to say, because the Aid Station Records of the 503d PRCT from Negros for that day record that a Wilson, William C. , S/Sgt, Serial Number 6661200, died of head wounds. This tallies with the D.O.D. on his grave. So, I’d expect that the S /N on the rear of his headstone should be 6661200 – though I haven’t checked it out. (The S/N is at the base of the headstone's obverse side.) What we have here seems to be two Army Serial Numbers for the same man, or one set of records "in error." One is an informal but contemporaneous transcription of an Aid Station report, and the other is a NARA Archive data base entry. Can anyone explain the discrepancy? I wouldn't have expected that someone could have two Army Serial Numbers.
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Post by one50 on Aug 6, 2008 0:32:22 GMT 8
Here is some information on Army Serial Numbers. It will shed some light on some questions. After reading the information below, you will see some issues with Wilson's SN 6661200. 1. Not enough digits. SN should have 8 digits. 2. The second digit denotes place. Place for Wilson is 5, Ohio. Even if you add a digit to the begining or end of his SN to make 8 digits, you still have the number 6 as the second digit. Number 6 is not Ohio per the information below. 3. Maybe Wilson, William C. is not from Ohio? There are 71 other Wilson, William C.'s in the NARA data base. Only one from Ohio. None of the 72 Wilson's have a SN remotely close to 6661200.
The following came from Army Regulation 615-30, dated 12 Feb 1942.
The system enabled one who knew the numbering system to tell from a serial number the component and corps area (later Service command and army area) from which a man had entered the Federal service, whether he had enlisted, or had been drafted through the Selective Service, and whether he had been a National Guardsman in his home state. Officer serial numbers always started with the letter O. According to Army Regulation 615-30, dated 12 Feb 1942, Corps area commanders are charged with the assignment of Army serial numbers to all enlisted men within their respective areas, including exempted stations and commands, and oversea base commands.
For the Regular Army - Enlisted men to whom an Army serial number has never been assigned: Army serial numbers from the blocks shown below will be assigned to men enlisted in the Regular Army on or after July 1, 1940. The second digit indicates the corps area of enlistment. 1st Corps Area - 11,000,000 to 11,999,999 2nd Corps Area - 12,000,000 to 12,999,999 3rd Corps Area - 13,000,000 to 13,999,999 4th Corps Area - 14,000,000 to 14,999,999 5th Corps Area - 15,000,000 to 15,999,999 6th Corps Area - 16,000,000 to 16,999,999 7th Corps Area - 17,000,000 to 17,999,999 8th Corps Area - 18,000,000 to 18,999,999 9th Corps Area - 19,000,000 to 19,999,999 Hawaiian Department - 10,100,000 to 10,199,999 Panama Canal Department - 10,200,000 to 10,299,999 Philippine Department - 10,300,000 to 10,399,999 Puerto Rican Department - 10,400,000 to 10,499,999
For the National Guard - Army serial numbers from the following blocks will be assigned to members of National Guard units upon induction into Federal service, regardless of whether or not the man formerly had an Army, Navy, or other service number. The third digit indicates corps area of induction. 1st Corps Area - 20,100,000 to 20,199,999 2nd Corps Area - 20,200,000 to 20,299,999 3rd Corps Area - 20,300,000 to 20,399,999 4th Corps Area - 20,400,000 to 20,499,999 5th Corps Area - 20,500,000 to 20,599,999 6th Corps Area - 20,600,000 to 20,699,999 7th Corps Area - 20,700,000 to 20,799,999 8th Corps Area - 20,800,000 to 20,899,999 9th Corps Area - 20,900,000 to 20,999,999 Hawaiian Department - 20,010,000 to 20,019,999 Puerto Rican Department - 20,020,000 to 20,029,999 The serial number assigned at induction into Federal service will be retained thereafter upon enlistment or reenlistment for the Regular Army or Army of the United States.
For Men inducted into the Army - Army serial numbers from the following blocks will be used for trainees inducted under the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940, regardless of whether the man formerly had an Army, Navy, or Other service number, and will be retained thereafter upon enlistment or reenlistment for the Regular Army. The second digit indicates the corps area of induction. 1st Corps Area - 31,000,000 to 31,999,999 2nd Corps Area - 32,000,000 to 32,999,999 3rd Corps Area - 33,000,000 to 33,999,999 4th Corps Area - 34,000,000 to 34,999,999 5th Corps Area - 35,000,000 to 35,999,999 6th Corps Area - 36,000,000 to 36,999,999 7th Corps Area - 37,000,000 to 37,999,999 8th Corps Area - 38,000,000 to 38,999,999 9th Corps Area - 39,000,000 to 39,999,999 Hawaiian Department - 30,100,000 to 30,199,999 Panama Canal Department - 30,200,000 to 30,299,999 Philippine Department - 30,300,000 to 30,399,999 Puerto Rican Department - 30,400,000 to 30,499,999
Consecutive numbers - Consecutive numbers will not be assigned to men of the same surname. Canceled numbers will not be held available for reassignment. The Army serial number assigned to an enlisted man is part of his official designation and, except as indicated will ordinarily appear in every military record in which his name appears, including every letter, telegram, order, report, pay roll, etc., at least once, preferably where the name first occurs. Special care must be taken that the correct Army serial number is used for the reason that certain records are filed and certain accounts are paid by the Army serial number and not by name.
Corps Areas 1st Corps Area – ME, VT, NH, MA, CT, RI 2nd Corps Area – NY, NJ, DE 3rd Corps Area – PA, MD, VA, DC 4th Corps Area – NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, TN 5th Corps Area – OH, IN, KY, WV 6th Corps Area – IL, MI, WI 7th Corps Area – MO, KS, NB, CO, IA, MN, ND, SD, WY 8th Corps Area – AR, LA, TX, OK, NM 9th Corps Area - WA, OR, CA, ID, MT, NV, UT, AK
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Post by Registrar on Aug 6, 2008 7:00:25 GMT 8
I think if you continue your reading, you'll find that Army Serial Numbers were NOT always eight digits.
I suspect you will find that there was an early system of numbering, and a later one. Pre-War, there just wasn't the call for such an available series of eight digits. The large increase in Army personnel (due to measures, such as calling up the National Guard for Federal service, and the number of Reserve Officers and Selective Service Trainees, becoming available) called for new ‘boxes’ of Serial Numbers to be introduced (numbering up to 8 digits) . However, ALL military personnel already having an Army Serial Number prior to 1 July 1940, were to retain their current ASN (numbering 7 digits only) .
And Officers had a different series, of course, with the "O" prefix.
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Post by Bert Caloud on Aug 6, 2008 13:49:41 GMT 8
The Registrar 503d PRCT Heritage Bn
Dear Sir,
Concerning your enquiry, the ABM 1 card list has 666120 as the authorized service number to be engraved on SSgt Wilson's headstone. That's the service number in our Data Base, our Hard Copy Manuals and is engraved on the rear of SSgt Wilson's headstone.
It's a prewar-enlistment service number. You probably already know that about the time they started expanding the army for WWII those who enlisted in the army (not Draftees or National Guard) were assigned serial numbers that started with 1.
I have had experience with soldiers who were assigned two service numbers but in all those cases it's the second service number not the first that they used. If I remember correctly they had served in the National Guard been discharged and then re-entered the army. Anyway if you look at the NARA entry on William C Wilson 15018243 from Ohio he was born in 1919 and entered (or likely re-entered) the army during March of 1941. Since he would have been 20 years old in 1939 there was more than enough time for him to have served an enlistment in the army be discharged and then re-enlist in the army before enlistments were frozen and all soldiers brought in thru the selective service in 1942. The NARA data base was made by using IBM cards at the induction centers. The number 15018243 could have been assigned to William C Wilson 6661200 in 1941 at the induction center but that doesn't mean he retained the use of 15018242 throughout his service until time of death. There are a number of ways to cross check what service number he used in the 503. Morning Reports, Unit Rosters, Listings of Casualties or you can also send for his burial file.
Without any more documentation like a lot of other things we discover you can speculate til the cows come home! It is not unusual to discover errors or omissions in the NARA data base. There are over 8 million records if I remember right. It is possible that William C Wilson service number 15018243 and William C Wilson 666120 are the same man. It is also possible that they are not and the IBM card on William C Wilson was never entered in the data base since it only lists numbers from 1938 to 1946. In 1938 this Wilson would have been 19 and could have enlisted prior to then hence his original service number was too senior to be entered in the NARA data base. I know this is not the clear cut answer you are looking for, but in my opinion when this soldier buried here was killed in action on Negros 6661200 was his assigned service number regardless or not if he was ever assigned another number.
Yours faithfully, Hubert Caloud Deputy Superintendent Manila American Cemetery and Memorial
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Post by one50 on Aug 6, 2008 21:51:22 GMT 8
After further emails and research, I think I may stand corrected Paul. 6661200 may just be William C. Wilson's number. 15018243 seems to be another William C. Wilson from Ohio that lived a life after the War...according to the one email you forwarded me.
Maricic Andrew P. Jr. 503d B Co. SN 06667562 is also from Ohio and has the same series of Pre War Digits. Also Kendall Howard B. Of Ohio (not in the 503d, just for reference) SN 06661210 his SN is very close to Wilson's. There seems to be a block of SN Starting with Wilson's SN 06661200 up to Kendall's which are missing form NARA. Out of millions of records, I understand how this might happen. I am curious though, how might I go about finding information about William Wilson 06661200? If my starting point was the NARA database. Are there hard copies on file with NARA or somewhere else? Sorry to sound so elementary, I just need to verify that William Wilson 06661200 was from Ohio and what part. The area of Ohio he was from helps me narrow my search here locally.
Thanks Dan
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