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Post by fots2 on May 25, 2010 19:49:06 GMT 8
I have heard some others on this board have spoken to Sun Cruises in one form or another. I got the impression not much came of it but I do not know the reason for this. Not being there, I cannot comment one way or the other. It is best to keep an open mind.
You say “The majority of people are not interested in history, they want to go on holiday to enjoy themselves…” 100% correct. I chuckle at the folks that get their feathers ruffled at the guides who mix up a date or two or add a little folklore to their tours.
They don’t understand that a successful day tour involves a nice ferry ride on Manila Bay, a fun tour with a friendly guide and a buffet lunch. The result is a smiling group boarding the ferry for the ride back to Manila.
The day tour is NOT designed to be an in-depth historical experience any more than a single summer class will give you a PHD. Why would anyone expect any different in the very few hours they have on Corregidor. Also, consider the clientele…not many with our interests.
The “students of history” as I have heard us called do our own research and plan our own adventures on the island. What we get out of it is up to us.
Very good post here notchtherhino, especially the ideas in your second from last paragraph. I have nothing to add to that.
As for the zip line, I have seen it used but not often. It is available for any guests that ask for it.
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 25, 2010 22:10:58 GMT 8
What will surely be served up again, in justification of all things inadequate, is the "force of circumstance" approach - "We have no budget," and "Oh, there can be no long-term investments made because all income is set by the number of day trips." Do we get long term capital improvement, or fresh coat of paint over the cracks tourism? Sooner or later, the word gets around. Tourist resorts/attractions have a life cycle. In 1980 a tourism researcher Richard Butler developed a well regarded model called the Tourism Area Life Cycle that describes the evolution of the economy of resort regions. Here are the stages" 1. Exploration: A secret spot is disovered, no amenities, must "go feral".
2. Involvement: A few locally-run concessions are established
3. Development: A well defined tourism industry is developed via advertising the destination
4. Consolidation: Tourism becomes the dominant feature of the local economy
5. Stagnation: Tourism growth slows and carrying capacity is reached, the area is no longer a new hotspot, maybe its overbuilt or loses its charm.
6. Decline or rejuvenation: Decline results as tourists choose other destinations, rejuvenation typically requires attracting a different kind of tourist. (Source: Prof. Richard Butler, University of Strathclyde Business School.) Simply put, the more one makes excuses for the inability to manage inherited problems, the closer comes the day when the resort loses its charm and rejuvenation becomes impossible. At which point, someone will come along and say, as before, "This is not a problem I caused, I inherited it from the other fellow." Incidentally, Corregidor isn't a National Park, and isn't likely to be. Beam me up, Mr. Scott.
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Post by mapmaster on May 25, 2010 22:34:39 GMT 8
Hi Everyone
I agree with notchtherhino's comments, which are in fact a very accurate summation of the 'reality' of the situation of Corregidor.
We know Corregidor is managed by the Corregidor Foundation Inc. that operates within the Department of Tourism of The Philippines. What is not known is that there was a five year plan prepared for Corregidor in 1987 and it is that plan that has guided the continued developments on the island.
An award winning publication titled Corregidor – Island of Valor, Peace and International Understanding; published in 1991 by CFI contained an outline of this plan. Quoting from this publication:
“After the war, Corregidor had another conqueror nature, the grass growing tall and invading the open grounds, the weeds in wild profusion choking the roadways and the ruins,
Long after the Pacific War Memorial was erected in 1968, the spirit of the The Rock was almost forgotten.
The memorial itself became forlorn and unattended. The old utility structures like the Cold Storage and the Power Plant were lost in a tangle of greens, Kindley Airstrip carpetted with tall grass and the guns were targets of scrap hunters.
Although Corregidor was the scene of invasion, battles and death, it doesn't mean that it should remain neglected and deserted. This was the common notion not only among war veterans but also amongst international historians and members of foreign and local travel trade circles.
Francisco Manosa & Partners, architects, designers and planners was commissioned by the Department of Tourism in 1987 to transform the island into what it really should be a historical park and tour destination.
"The main concept of the plan primarily considered in developing the island," according to Manosa, "was the delineation of Corregidor into two major development areas preserving the integrity of the war memorial and shrine while maintaining a viable balance of recreational and historical coexistence”.
The concept, as put altogether by the Department of Tourism (DOT) and the Philippine Tourism Authority (PTA), Francisco Manosa and Partners, the Department of National Defense and the people behind the Corregidor Foundation, Inc., has developed the island in such a manner as to entice not only domestic but foreign tourists as well to visit the historical park, with the unique and inherent qualities bestowed to Corregidor as its primary attractions.
The five year development plan called for the provision of adequate tourism services and facilities in the historic island, most of which are now available for tourists”. ISLAND EXPERIENCE: Retelling of the Saga in a Historical Park by Ferdinand J. Bonsol.
Therefore it was planned last century that there would be “a viable balance of recreation and historical coexistence”. The above publication goes on to detail the two areas as “Memorial Zone” and “Tourist Zone”. The Tourist Zone comprises Bottomside, Malinta Tunnel and the Tail. Middleside and Topside comprise the Memorial Zone.
Has this worked? Is it still working? Well, I think it has and still is. The key tourist facilities are available within Bottomside such as the Corregidor Inn, cafés and bars. The memorials and Malinta Tunnel provide what the tourist requires. Topside is where both the tourist and the historian can view key buildings and batteries.
However, what is also available on Corregidor is access to all of the surviving historical infrastructure of the island. Anyone including the true military historian can wander about the island exploring tunnels, caves, AA battery sites, bunkers, command posts, field artillery gun emplacements and underground magazines; well over a hundred years of history.
Without the involvement of the present managerial arrangements what is left would be heavily modified, built out or worse. We are thankful (I hope we all are) that Corregidor remains somewhat intact and accessible.
Regards
mapmaster
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 7:51:41 GMT 8
After i wrote my bit yesterday i was thinking about all the times i`ve visited Corregidor, I can`t remember ever seeing more than a dozen people staying at the hotel at any one time. I used to go hiking everyday with the guide Cyver, it was always just me the wife and him, i often wondered if the hotel managed to make a profit!
To be honest i liked it that way, NO PEOPLE! selfish of me maybe, but that`s one of the reasons i love Corregidor, peace and quiet no crowds of people getting in the way!
Another island i`d love to visit is Iwo Jima, nobody there either! As i understand it you can only get on the place with one American battlefield tour company and then its only a day visit! I guess that one will have to wait till i sail off in my yacht, for a tour of the pacific islands, moor off the Iwo, then go ashore everyday.
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Post by okla on May 26, 2010 22:59:47 GMT 8
Hey Rhino....My cousin, a retired after 20 years USAF M/Sgt, spent a full day on Wake Island back in the 1960s while the C-54 ferrying him and others to Tachikawa, Japan was having a minor engine problem rectified. He said there was absolutely nothing to see, but prowling the place, totally alone, was almost "spooky". The only sound was the wind and the surf pounding the coral. He said the place was virtually unchanged after all those years. and I would think that this still holds true. unless there has been some activity on the island that I am unaware of. I guess Wake is one of those places where "ghosts literally walk at mid day". I would certainly like to visit the place and also Guadacanal, although I have heard that in recent years that the "canal" had suffered some political turmoil that might frighten tourists/historians away.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2010 9:37:35 GMT 8
Thats the plan Okla, sail the yacht around the pacific visiting all the islands, do some scuba diving on the wrecks at, truk lagoon etc.
Off on a bit of a tangent here......... My uncle was in the Royal Navy in combined operations, transported American troops to the canal in the Empire Spearhead, was at leyte gulf, and all over the pacific. I`ve been watching the mini series on tv the Pacific, I remember my uncle telling me of when the Australian army set up machine guns in Cairns and told the American troops to stay away or they would be shot! it was all down to them chasing the women!! Another story was about the marines they transported again in the Spearhead from New York down to Australia then the canal, there was a riot on board, the marines were demanding ice-cream! Many a tale he could tell of his adventures, a pity he`s long gone.
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Post by okla on May 29, 2010 0:44:23 GMT 8
Hey Rhino...."chasing the women". It seems that's the case/problem in most senarios, doesn't it??? Are the conditions for scuba diving in "Iron Bottom" Sound favorable? ? If so, I would think there are enough wrecks to occupy a diver for an eternity. Touring the Pacific battle sites would be a dream come true for me, but the first stop on my itinerary would be Corregidor/Bataan and I am certain that I would never get away from the place. It's just a hang up I have had since elementary school days. As my buddy Fots has often stated, "it's a disease with no known cure". How true that is in my case . Nice talking to you.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2010 8:55:00 GMT 8
I think the ships in Iron bottom sound are all to deep for me! only qualified to 36m don`t know if i`d want to go deeper as the decompression stops on the way back up would dive me insane! i`d like to visit Bataan, the national park area and the highest peaks, maybe you could advise on places to stay and where to go, what to see etc? I may go next Feb, depends if the £ does not completely collapse, i used to get 92+ pesos to the pound, last March it was 62 pesos to the pound, Ouch... Good old Gordon brown he know`s how to ruin the country!
Did you know that the Australian navy were supporting the marines at the canal, and that the British high commissioner met the marines when they first landed, he had been hiding and reporting on the Japanese since they invaded, he and the local natives guided the marines inland. The canal was British territory before the war.
Sailing around the world would be a dream come true for me! but i think once i`d reach the Pacific i`d not want to come home to England, its changed so much since i was a boy, its not the country i grew up in, successive governments have destroyed the United Kingdom, its a crying shame.
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Post by okla on May 29, 2010 10:05:13 GMT 8
Hey Rhino....Yeah, I was aware that the Australian Navy was operating with the USN at Guadalcanal. The RAN Cruiser Canberra went down with the USN Astoria, Quincy, and Vincinnes at Savo Island. Earlier in the war, as you probably know, the cruisers USS Houston and the RAN Perth went down together, under Japanese fire, off Java (Battle of Sunda Strait? ). The Aussies pulled their weight in those days, especially when you consider that so many of their troops/etc were involved in North Africa fighting Rommel. I have long felt that Aussie Infantry fighting in New Guinea didn't receive the full recognition they deserved in the Buna Campaign, but MacArthur's press corps was reluctant to heap too much praise on anybody but the Supreme Commander of that theatre. Who said life was fair? Postscript....My cousin, a 20 year plus veteran of the USAF, has been married to a native of London since 1956. She is a "veteran" of the 1940 Blitz. Her father escaped from Dunkirk and her Step Father was captured at Singapore, although he didn't work on the infamous Thailand "railroad to hell", but rather sat out the war in Changi Prison on Singapore Island. Both survived the war.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2010 0:57:20 GMT 8
Changi prison was a real hell hole, loads of far east vets around where i live, lots of great stories i have been regaled with! Buna campaign, yes pretty tough, i`ve got an excellent book about it, will look for it and give you the details.
Yes lots of Aussies in Africa, my granddad was there with the kings royal rifle corp, told me about the aussies refusing to fight at tubruk untill they got beer!
Well there were a lot of campaigns during ww2 where the troops did not get full credit where it was due. Hollywood has not helped in matters, many people believe hollywoods version of ww2 that only American troops did the fighting Incidentally i saw Operation Burma with Errol Flynn the other day, an enjoyable movie, but total tosh! gave the impression that Americans won the war in Burma, it was banned in the uk for many years and did not receive favourable press upon its release, caused uproar amongst the 14th army veterans who never seen an American the entire war.
I have a friend who was in Singapore in the royal artillery, there guns were still firing at the surrender and the MPs were sent to order them to stop the shelling at gun point! He did`nt want to surrender nor did his comrades, let down by an inept commander called Percival.
He worked on the railway before been transported in the hell ships to Japan, ended up working down a mine.
Dunkirk 70th anniversary this week, i was there last year, walking the battlefields, seen where the 1st SS murdered nearly 100 men of the Royal Norfolks and 2nd SS not to be out done murdered another 80 men of the Warwickshire regiment the following day, all were part of the rear guard holding the perimeter to buy time for the British army to be evacuated.
My Grandma and mum are vets of the Blitz, bombed out, went to live with my great Grandparents back in Newcastle, where my great granddad was in the home guard, a vet of the of WW1, served with the Northumberland fusiliers, one of the "old contemptible s" was gassed at Ypres, ( wipers to the Tommy ) shot at Passchendaele, cried like a baby when they would`nt take him when he went to re-enlist in 39 for round two as he was too old. When the Luftwaffe were bombing the railway marshalling yards in Newcastle he was out shooting at them with his rifle along with his home guard comrades, all WW1 vets, seething with rage, They were hard men, I would`nt give the SS even odds against them.......................anyway i digress, my ancestors have been in all the wars going back for over 110 years, as far back as i`ve traced so far.
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