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Post by okla on Apr 23, 2011 6:48:41 GMT 8
Hey John...Thanks for the additional info. The Rabaul refueling operation is news to me. Seems that I learn something new everyday on this great site. I love it. Keep it coming. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Apr 23, 2011 11:21:13 GMT 8
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Post by chadhill on Apr 23, 2011 12:59:33 GMT 8
Okla, yes LT Church was flying a P-40 when he was KIA on December 16, while on his intitial bombing run of parked Japanese aircraft at an airstrip near Vigan. He was flying wing for Wagner, who made the first run. When Church started his plane was hit by AA fire and burst into flames, but he pressed on rather than bail out, dropping his bombs amid several Japanese aircraft before hitting the ground. When General Brereton learned of the mission he called Major Orrin Grover, CO 24th Pursuit Group, chewed him out for ordering an unauthorized raid and reminded him in no uncertain terms that all missions required prior FEAF HQ approval. On December 20, on MacArthur's orders, Church and Wagner were awarded DSC's. Together with LT Allison Strauss, who intially provided top cover but later joined in with strafing, they had destroyed an estimated ten Japanese aircraft on the ground. Wagner had also shot down a Nate as it took off. Colonel Ruth Bradley passed away May 28, 2002. This most remarkable army nurse was buried in Arlington. An obituary is given for her at this link: www.arlingtoncemetery.net/rbradley.htm
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Post by okla on Apr 23, 2011 23:36:20 GMT 8
Hey Chad...Thanks again for this great, detailed information. As a nine year old kid, I remember the initial stories coming back from the PI about Colin Kelly and how he crashed his B-17 into the Japanese Battleship Haruna (which postwar Japanese records showed never happened as this particular vessel was not in the area, nor did the Army Air Corps ever say it happened) They did state that a larger combat ship, either a Heavy Crusier or Battlewagon was the target and it was hit and severely damaged and in a sinking condition, if memory serves.. Not to diminish Captain Kelly's bravery and flying skills, as I remember, postwar records also showed that the vessel attacked was more likely a smaller craft (maybe even a transport/troop ship). Having labored, during my hitch in Korea, in Wing Ops/Intel, I know from experience that Aircrew claims can become distorted and blown out of proportion. I don't care how many "guidelines",etc are put in place in an effort to curtail overblown claims in after action reports, they have always happened and probably always will. I do know that after WW 2, the Airforce put much more stringent regulations into play in an effort to get a more reliable fix on what did and did not happen during missions. Surveys subsequent to V-J Day with the aid of captured enemy loss/damage reports proved that our flyers claimed far more "kills" than actually was the case. I have long heard that the USN, alone, claimed more Japanese aircraft destroyed than were actually manufactured. Have you ever heard this highly unlikely rumor??? Anyhow, I am sure you get my drift. Leastways, we, during the Korean Conflict didn't award "kill" credits just on say so. Gun film, multiple witnesses,etc were required, but I betcha USAF combat claims were still inflated, but not to the level of World War 2. One last thing in regard to Colonel Ruby Bradley..I was in error about her serving on Bataan and being taken prisoner upon Corregidor's fall. .According to her obit, she was taken prisoner at Camp John Hay, never having the opportunity to retreat into Bataan with the other Medical Personnel. She was behind the wire longer than I had thought. I believe one could safely say that "they don't make 'em like that anymore". She was a hell- uv - a credit to the Army Nurse Corps, setting a standard that her younger nursing sisters of today will find tough to equal. God Bless her.
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Post by chadhill on May 4, 2011 11:38:42 GMT 8
Okla, yes as you say it was wrongly reported that the Japanese ship involved was the battleship Haruna, which was not in the area. Apparently it was the heavy cruiser Ashigara instead and, though Kelly's crew were sure they hit it, Japanese records don't reveal any significant damage (McClendon and Richards, "The Legend of Colin Kelly", p.59). I've read that the Flying Tigers claims were inflated, too. Hadn't heard that the Navy thought they shot down more planes than were actually made, but stranger things have happened and in the heat of combat I suppose claim inflation is easy to understand. Batteryboy, with regards to replies 60-63, I found this photo of Ki-51s over Bataan in the 1943 Japanese book "Philippine Expeditionary Force" (translator's note at bottom).
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Post by batteryboy on May 4, 2011 12:40:25 GMT 8
Hi Chad,
These are Mitsubishi Ki-30 "Ann"s with the 16th Hiko Sentai over Bataan.
Thanks for sharing the photo
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Post by chadhill on May 4, 2011 23:28:43 GMT 8
Sharp eye, Batteryboy. I stand corrected. Ki-30 Ki-51
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Post by okla on May 5, 2011 6:23:33 GMT 8
Hey Chad....In regard to combat "claims" made by some Flying Tiger pilots, it is understandable when "bounties" were paid for each "kill" by the Nationalist Chinese Government. I have forgotten the actual sums involved, but so much was paid for single engine fighters shot down and a larger sum was given for multi engine bomber aircraft destroyed. I suppose it only natural for some of these guys to inflate their "kill" claims when those kind of bounties were involved. I was under the impression for years that the AVG guys were knocking down Japanese aircraft for quite some time prior to Dec 7, 1941. Only a few years ago did I learn that, although the AVG people were in Burma and China some time prior to Pearl Harbor, it was late December before they were involved in actual aerial combat with the Emperior's flyers. Cheers.
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Post by batteryboy on May 5, 2011 9:30:47 GMT 8
Overclaiming was common to all sides. Even in the P.I., not onlythe pilots but also AA gunners "shot down" more aircraft than what was really officialy lost. I just made a small study on the actual claims on all three sides in the early P.I. aerial conflict (US, Japanese and Filipino pilots) and discovered discrepancies.
Early in the war, the USAFFE needed heroes to keep the morale up fighting men up. I am not saying that the exploits of Wagner, Church or Kelly were dubious. They were given a little "drama" to add to the heroism.
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Post by chadhill on May 5, 2011 11:46:51 GMT 8
Okla, I kinda remember something like $500 per downed plane that was paid to an AVG pilot (not exactly chunk change in those days), but it's been years since I read about them. Batterboy, this photo from PEF shows a Ki-30, if I've got it right this time. The translator says it is captioned, "The progress of the century is depicted in the sky and on the ground. The heat is terrific. Ashes from the battle float up. The enemy is being pushed southward on Bataan by our troops. The cries of victory resound up to heaven. Long live the Emperor!". For this photo the translator says, "The Wild Eagles await orders to go aloft. Look at the battle picture presented by the gunner who is preparing for battle by taking refreshments!".
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