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Post by okla on Mar 23, 2012 0:01:11 GMT 8
Hey Fots....Absolutely great stuff. I was needing a "fix" rather badly. This latest Fantastic Fots Foto Tour arrived just in the nick of time on this rather chilly, rainy, day. The rain was most welcome as was the "fix". I have made a quick once thru and have a couple of comments before I settle back for a more thorough viewing this afternoon. First...What is that body of water shown in the photo of the heavily damaged Manila Hotel (1945). I don't see it in the pre-war aerial view nor in the outside shots taken in the 1950s. Also, it is just my humble opinion, but only Douglas MacArthur, with his enormous ego would opt to make the penthouse of the most opulent Hotel in maybe the whole orient (at the least in the PI) his official, day to day residence. I realize that he was the Philippine Army Field Marshall from 1935 till 1941, but to live like a Sultan leaves me a little bit "cold" to the idea. I am a firm believer in "rank has its privileges", but I just think this is a little over the top. I have always thought that his personal recounting of being in the assault team that broke into the Penthouse when the Hotel was being retaken by the Americans, was a crock of that well known substance. He may well have been in the vicinity, but to be among the "shock troops", fighting room to room, methinks, is another of those "self styled myths" that surround the man. I also remember that upon his return from the Far East, after recall by Harry Truman, he resided in the Waldorf Astoria, receiving guests ala Julius Caesar. Just my take on the man and his ego, no knock on his military prowess, although it always seemed that when things went wrong (Clark Field, advance to the Yalu, ignoring G-2 reports of Red Chinese forces appearing on the battle front,etc) it was always the fault of somebody else, never his own. He also was very reluctant to share any success in New Guinea with our Australian Allies, but if things went awry it would be quickly pointed out that the Americans were not the only folks fighting the Japs in those early days on the "return". Just my take. I will now return to more the enjoyable pursuit of reviewing this new material at a more leisurely pace. The next time I am in Manila (lol) I might consider paying by long, delinquent Elks dues and venture into the depicted BPOE, go "off the wagon" and knock back a few. Surely the Ghosts of the long ago bar and club room still exist. Cheers.
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Post by fots2 on Mar 23, 2012 0:46:07 GMT 8
Hi okla, I have a few little fixes coming your way whenever I get around to it. Good question about the body of water you can see in the 1945 Manila Hotel photo but not seen in the 1950s photo. The 1950s photo shows the front of the hotel where the 1945 photo shows the left hand side of the hotel. The water is actually part of Manila Bay. In the pre-war aerial view you can just see a small section of beach on the left. Here is a wider view of the same 1945 photo. Also, here is a wider view of the aerial photo where you can see the front of the building plus the left side with more water showing. I can’t imagine the general ‘out on point’ clearing rooms on his way to the Penthouse suites. Your summary of MacArthur sound good to me. Thanks for the comments.
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Post by okla on Mar 23, 2012 2:07:49 GMT 8
Hey Fots...Many thanks for easing my mind. As you know these kinds of "monumental" questions literally run me up the wall. Looking forward to future "fixes", especially, the Malinta Tunnel "production". Cheers. Postscript....Those shots of the 1945 urban fighting in Manila should remind all of us that Manila was the only city in the Far East to suffer Berlin/Stalingrad type street conflict. It was a brutal business with typical Japanese atrocities against the civilian populace. We should never forget the things that took place during the effort to liberate Manila from Nipponese yoke. Cheers.
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Post by fots2 on Mar 23, 2012 18:25:19 GMT 8
If anyone wants to know more about the atrocities, have a look at the “Sack of Manila†website. A link to it is included at the bottom of the first post in this thread.
Have you seen this website okla?
Thanks to Phantom for a good day walking around these parts of Manila. See you next year.
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Post by okla on Mar 23, 2012 21:08:31 GMT 8
Hey Fots....No, I had not seen this collection of photos. Thanks for the tip. After a quick perusal of the site, I will brew a new pot of coffee and go over the whole set of the wartime pics. The collection of older, prewar photographs also appear to be good stuff. Thanks again for the "heads up".
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Post by darthdract on Mar 23, 2012 22:38:31 GMT 8
Hi Fots Okla and all hey Fots I hope you don't mind if I post it here, I Just want to share a before and After perspective of the UST main building court yard. This were taken March 26, 2010 1945 2010 I am not sure if this the same courtyard as in the Old photo there two courtyards in the MainBuilding
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Post by okla on Mar 24, 2012 0:09:56 GMT 8
Hey Darth....Thanks for posting the pics. It's certainly tough to believe that this peaceful looking courtyard was the scene of such miserable conditions way back then. If the existing courtyards are identical, and both were used as prison pens, I suppose we will never know one from the other as far as the photo is concerned. Cheers.
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Post by The Phantom on Mar 24, 2012 3:43:06 GMT 8
The first picture of the Manila Hotel, and Intramuros pre WWII, in your latest posting (March, 2012), is intriguing Fots.
It seems that hot day of exploration was well worthwhile last February, after all.
Of note;
"Baluarte De San Diego"( from the past) is clearly seen in that photo.....on the corner of Intramuros closest to the Manila Hotel.
Mac Arthur's "House On The Wall? office in Intramuros one and the same?" Note all the buildings on the wall.
(Entire description posted by Fots earlier in this thread but the following excerpt pertains to the above mentioned photo.)
"During American occupation American Army Ordnance built on this site."
There is also a very good photo of the present condition of this specific location within this thread immediately following the "Baluarte De San Diego"sign.
The "House on the Wall" is always talked about as being Mac Arthur's Headquarters pre WW II.
The whole corner of Intramuros shown, ( some off picture), in the picture is described on maps as "CUARTEL DE ESPANA", or Spanish Section.
Mac Arthur's Headquarters address: USAFFE HQ. No.1 Calle Victoria Manila
Was his headquarters located on the wall here? The area on the wall and adjacent are all part of the old Spanish Command section.
The "wall" section was destroyed during WWII, in 1980 it had been completely dug up to Spanish and British times of occupation.
Mac Arthur could have been driven from his Manila Hotel home to the Real Gate into Intramuros as it was closest, and on to work.
The U.S. took over the old Spanish headquarters in this location. Calle Victoria, (Victoria Street) runs across the front of these old Spanish headquarters a block from the corner wall outpost.
Calle Victoria runs from the front of Mac Arthur's Intramuros Headquarters to Calle Victoria Ext., on to Manila City Hall then to Conception Street.... on which was located the YMCA and the Sternberg Hospital.
It appears we were looking in the wrong place for the old Sternberg Hospital location last month Fots.
According to the map of 1934, it's former location is now across the street from the SM Mall, (built on the former YMCA property), behind the City Hall Area.
Pictures, maps, and on foot reconnaissance, no substitute.
So where was Mac Arthur's House On The Wall?
Have we found it?
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Post by darthdract on Mar 24, 2012 4:52:58 GMT 8
Hey Darth....Thanks for posting the pics. It's certainly tough to believe that this peaceful looking courtyard was the scene of such miserable conditions way back then. If the existing courtyards are identical, and both were used as prison pens, I suppose we will never know one from the other as far as the photo is concerned. Cheers. Yup it really feels surreal I use to Drink Coffee in that court yard, I just could not even imagine my Great Grand father is one of the internees. I could not remember why I was not able to take pictures of both yards the other one has some steel chairs and tables.
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Post by okla on Mar 24, 2012 6:07:33 GMT 8
Hey Darth...I think I may be on to something that might prove that the photos you posted are not of the 1945 courtyard. Take a look at the width of the windows that are in the back portion of the courtyard. The 1945 photo shows a more narrow window on the left hand corner of the wall. Your photos show the narrow windows appearing on the right hand corner of the wall. Betcha if you could check the other courtyard you would see that it is probably the one that is shown in the 1945 photo. I wouldn't bet my life on my theory, but I studied the old shot and the new ones that you posted and finally found something (the narrow windows) that I could match up, or in this case, something that didn't match. Whatcha think?
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