|
Post by JohnEakin on Mar 20, 2012 3:46:55 GMT 8
Does anyone have any idea where the Japanese field artillery batteries were sited on Bataan? I know there were some in the Cabcaben area, but could they have been sited further North? Perhaps as far as Pilar near Balanga? I'm looking for the site of the burial of a member of the 192nd Tank Battalion who died on the DM. The full story is at www.proviso.k12.il.us/bataan%20web/Bloomfield.htm but the short story is that they were receiving counter-battery fire from Corregidor and this man was running from the area and had a heart attack and was buried nearby along the DM Route. I've seen documents prepared from the accounts of two different POW's and they both tell the same story that they hotwired an American truck to get out of the area where they were receiving incoming and this man was running behind the truck. Somehow, though, it just doesn't sound like other stories I've heard of how the DM was conducted. Where were the guards? If it was early after the fall of Bataan and the DM wasn't really organized, why were they moving in that direction? Didn't General King order everyone to be concentrated in the Miraveles area? I think everyone assumed that it was near Cabcaben because of the many references to the batteries being set up near the 1st and 2nd General Hospitals, but I recently obtained the IDPF and there is a handwritten note that indicates that AGRS searched the Pilar and Orion area North of Cabcaben on the National Highway. I'm thinking that if the Japanese brought in 240mm guns - which I presume had a greater range than their other artillery - they might have sited the 240's as far North as possible. Anyone have any insight in to this? Thanks, John
|
|
|
Post by batteryboy on Mar 20, 2012 6:12:24 GMT 8
Are you referring to the Japanese artillery positions during the battle of Bataan or during the siege of Corregidor? They moved their artillery in different positions duringthe conducts of the campaign.
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Mar 20, 2012 7:35:43 GMT 8
During the siege. The story is that they were getting incoming because they were near the Japanese guns and one of them had a heart attack getting away from the area.
If we knew where the batteries were we'd have a better idea what area they were in and where he was buried.
Were there Japanese guns as far North as Pilar? Was Pilar or Orion in range of Corregidor's guns? Since they were getting incoming from Corregidor, knowing how far North they could reach would help us narrow the area where he is buried.
I'm sure the basic story is true, but bits of it sound like they have been distorted. Does it sound right to you?
|
|
|
Post by batteryboy on Mar 20, 2012 8:59:30 GMT 8
Pilar is already too far during the siege of Corregidor. They were in the areas of Cabcaben and Lamao. A number of the 150mm long range guns were in Limay but were moved closer on the latter part. The 240mms were closer to achieve better results. They were well emplaced in defiladed areas. The 240mm although powerful had an issue with its range as its a howitzer as it fired in high elevations which produced a looping shot in order to hit the batteries of the harbor defenses. Unlike the 150mm guns that has a longer barrel and higher muzzle velocity, it was situated farther. The 150mm Howitzers were as close with the 240mm. 75mm - 100mm - 105mm guns were at Cabcaben and Sisman Area (Mariveles) and a few were reported to have made it near the western coast but were subject to constant counter battery fire from Corregidor 155mm roving batteries. Those in defiladed postions were harder to spot.
For fear of counter battery fire from Corregidor and Caballo, the Japanese also moved their guns from time to time in order to avoid being pinpointed.
As far as Corregidor's guns, the ones that hit targets as far as Orion would be the 12-inch LR guns of Hearn and Smith. On the 8th - 9th of April, Hearn and Smith fired 34 rounds each at the Pandan river bridge in the Orion - Limay area. After that there no further reports of these two LR guns firing that far so Japanese artillery was located nearer during the siege.
HTH,
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Mar 20, 2012 22:21:40 GMT 8
I don't know how you come up with all these details about events 70 years ago, but I appreciate it. I figured that if anyone would know, it would be you, BatteryBoy. Thanks.
So it sounds to me like the story is basically correct and they were probably closer to Cabcaben than to Orion or Pilar - although, they could have received incoming from Corregidor as far North as the Orion-Limay area (but it is unlikely that there would have been Japanese guns in that area). That means graves registration was probably looking in the wrong area.
But I'm still bothered by the part about the truck and stopping to bury the man. It just isn't consistent with any of the many DM stories I've heard. Heck, why didn't they just motor all the way to O'Donnell? The hotwiring makes a good story, but I never saw a tactical vehicle (albeit it was a few years later when I was driving them) which needed a key to start.
|
|
|
Post by batteryboy on Mar 20, 2012 23:35:19 GMT 8
You are welcome and anything about artillery duels, that's right up my alley.
Based on the story on Bloomfield, Co. A witnessed an artillery duel between the Japanese and the gunners of Corregidor on April 13. The fact is that after the fall of Bataan, the gunners at the island were forbidded to to counter battery fire as Wainwright feared that it will hit captured USAFFEE troops. It was only on April 12 when most of the prisoner were out of their starting point (Mariveles) that Gen Wainwright authorized counter battery fire. Battery Kysor, two 155mm guns on Panama Mounts with an additional tractor drawn 155mm gun fired the first retaliatory salvos againsts Japanese gun batteries. Then followed by Batteries Geary and Morrison on the same day. Morrison was knocked out after a few hours. Other batteries soon followed including the fixed seacoast guns of James, and Grubbs and the other roving 155mm batteries. There were heavy exchanges from both sides and both scored hits againsts one another from April 12 - 16. However, the Japanese were succesful in knocking out batteries James, Grubbs and Morrison.
So there is some basis to the story as them witnessing the artillery duel. As for the burial side, there might be also some truth into it. There were a lot of stereo type stories of the death march but you will be surprised that not all Japanese were portrayed bad. I have other reports of Japanese soldiers and guards who cared less about prisoners escaping and even lending out a helping hand or two to the prisoners.
FWIW,
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Mar 21, 2012 3:06:31 GMT 8
It seems like only the stories of brutality survive. Your comment that there were occasional acts of kindness help to restore my faith in humanity.
|
|
|
Post by okla on Mar 21, 2012 6:30:07 GMT 8
Hey Guys....Just to confirm that there were some acts of kindness,etc on the part of the Japanese, I will pass on this anecdote that appeared in one of the many books pertaining to treatment of allied POWs by the Japanese. It seems that this Japanese family lived adjacent to one of the smaller prison pens located in Japan (Honshu, if memory serves). The father/head of household was an employee (not an armed guard) inside the camp and in this capacity smuggled life sustaining food, on occasion to some of the prisoners. This was at great risk to this person and his family, not to mention the fact that these Japanese were not, themselves, dining at the Ritz on a daily basis. Upon liberation when some reprisals were being taken by not a few of the POWs against most of the prison guards,etc and some of the locals, this family was protected by the recipients of their wartime kindness. It was claimed that a few of the more brutal guards were thrown into the camp water well, among other acts of vengence. I thought this story was rather interesting. It did show that there was some folks with a bit of humanity on the other side. Too bad that these acts were usually the exception rather than the rule. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by sherwino on Mar 26, 2012 9:10:23 GMT 8
Maybe some Japs showed brutality during hostilities. My grandfather told me that the Japs did not harass them or showed something bad considering that some of them looked like Americans.
|
|