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Post by JohnEakin on Sept 21, 2010 10:30:58 GMT 8
John, that's very interesting. And...not declassified until February 2010?? Do you suppose that was just plain oversight on some agency's part? But on the other hand, it's difficult for me to believe that all these years historians and researchers didn't submit FOIA requests for that information, bringing the classification question to their attention long ago. I thought Clinton had a lot of these kinds of things marked for declassification in the 90s. So I wonder again, why February 2010? But then I could tell y'all about my learning that 11 million pages of Korean War documents are still classified. Some about POWs until 2030. I *think* they were eligible for declassification several years ago, but it wasn't until someone asked for them that they actually did it. I was told that no unknown had been recovered from the Manila American Cemetery in recent memory which would make me think no one has looked at these files as it is very obvious who these unknowns are - and there are 3,744 of them in Manila. FWIW, the individual deceased personnel files and X files all have special restricted coversheets as well as declassification markings all over them. There's about as much "defense information" in them as in my dog's breakfast. A classic example of classification to prevent embarrassment.
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Post by chadhill on Sept 21, 2010 11:28:48 GMT 8
What you are saying about the government apathy with the Manila unknowns doesn't surprise me. All one has to do is look across some of the Pacific battlefields and see the pitiful condition of the few memorials dedicated to US servicemen--and then compare them to the relatively pristine condition, and large number of, Japanese memorials.
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Post by okla on Sept 21, 2010 22:42:55 GMT 8
Hey Chad...Since my last post concerning the POWs being promoted one grade I did a bit of re-checking and am now not too sure that the promotion of one grade for enlisted personnel was due to Genl Wainwright exclusively or this was a War Department initiative (maybe both factored into the decision), but I do know that "Skinny" saw to it that the pay records,etc of the people on Corregidor were placed in footlockers and taken out on one of the last Pigboats that left the "Rock" in those last few days before the capitulation. Still says something about this man as a Commander and person, methinks. He usually, if not always, put the welfare of his troops foremost. He was my idea of the great CO. Cheers. Postscript...As for this malady that we all seem to share on this forum, it is kinda enjoyable isn't it?
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Post by batteryboy on Sept 28, 2010 17:49:55 GMT 8
Techically speaking: Are we referring to the first batch of Bataan POWs or the first POWs captured by the Japanese before the fall of Bataan. Remember there were several encounters even before USAFFE slipped into Bataan and a number of PA and a few PC officers and soldiers were captured in the early days of the fighting.
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 3:38:52 GMT 8
According to Dr. John Bumgarner of Hospital # 2, in his book "Parade of the Dead", on 11 APR 42, two days after Bataan fell, the Japanese "freed" all wounded and sick Filipino troops, about 5500 total, and instructed them to leave Hospital # 2. They were forced to join the March northwards. Colonel Jack Schwartz, M.D., a senior medical officer, protested but was ignored. Bumgarner learned that within days 800 of the Filipino patients had died. About 1500 US troops remained as patients at Hospital # 2. It's my guess that a number of the medical personnel left Hospital # 2 shortly after the departure of the Filipino patients, and probably went straight to O'Donnell. I found a used copy of Bumgarner's book on Amazon.com and it is a great read. In his own quiet, unassuming way, he is the equal of many better known authors on the subject. He filled in a lot of gaps from the "official" unit history of the 2nd General Hospital I've posted on my web site - not to mention how he "humanized" the characters. The 2nd General Hospital is my special research project as that is where my cousin was. Any other recommended reading on the subject would be appreciated. (I ordered Band of Angels the other day.) Best, John
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 3:53:24 GMT 8
Hey Chad...Since my last post concerning the POWs being promoted one grade I did a bit of re-checking and am now not too sure that the promotion of one grade for enlisted personnel was due to Genl Wainwright exclusively or this was a War Department initiative (maybe both factored into the decision), but I do know that "Skinny" saw to it that the pay records,etc of the people on Corregidor were placed in footlockers and taken out on one of the last Pigboats that left the "Rock" in those last few days before the capitulation. Still says something about this man as a Commander and person, methinks. He usually, if not always, put the welfare of his troops foremost. He was my idea of the great CO. Cheers. Postscript...As for this malady that we all seem to share on this forum, it is kinda enjoyable isn't it? You got me thinking about the promotions thing. Remember Striker, the Gulf War MIA? Seems like he was an O4 when he was shot down, but they kept promoting him and he was an O6 when he was finally recovered. So I went through the 14 IDPF's I have from the Cabanatuan POWs and found that they still had the same rank at the beginning and end of the files ('42 to about '51). When I was in the Army (more than 2 weeks ago), promotion from E1 to E2 and to E3 was pretty much automatic if you stayed out of trouble. But these guys in Cabanatuan didn't get any breaks - talk about adding insult to injury. My cousin was drafted in April 1941 and was still a Pvt when he died in November 1942. In a way, this seems surprising as everything I've read about life in the camps indicates that they functioned pretty much as military units. The unit roster I have for the 2nd General Hospital lists people coming and going on work details and the guard house, etc., much like a morning report. Just wondering what you have to do to get sent to the guard house when you're already a POW? I guess bread and water would have been an improvement. Best, John
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Post by okla on Oct 12, 2010 4:43:44 GMT 8
Hey John....Something I have never really taken the time to check out is whether these promotions of one rank was retroactive back to POW days or later upon release from the prison pens. It would make a pretty good difference when figuring back pay due when being discharged. I would think that the Date of Rank, shown on Form DD214 would indicate when the promotion kicked in, if retroactive, and not on being the date of liberation or thereabouts,etc. I know that my DD214 shows the effective date of my last promotion to S/Sgt, but this advancement was not retroactive, thus is an entirely different situation. The things that come up on this forum certainly keeps the mind "a-workin'." Always something new to torment a guy, but I love it. Cheers.
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Post by JohnEakin on Oct 12, 2010 7:10:05 GMT 8
Just to make things interesting, I believe most of the 201 files burned in the 1970's records center file. We'll have to find someone who was there to find out if they all received a stripe while POW's.
Whatever they did get, it wasn't enough for what they endured.
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Post by okla on Oct 12, 2010 9:22:52 GMT 8
Hey John...My records were lost in that fire, but when I was Honorably Discharged I received (as did everybody) a duplicate DD214 that included, as I am sure you know, all pertinent, essential info. The Air Force insisted, preached, advised,etc that the first thing folks such as I should do upon reaching our respective home towns was to record this document at our respective County Courthouses. This way, if those 201 files, which contained much more detailed information, were ever lost/destroyed, etc, the concerned former GI would still have some information to work with in the event he was seeking data required in filing a disability claim, or seeking other desired information. Luckily, I have never needed to do this. Cheers.
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Post by chadhill on Oct 15, 2010 4:05:33 GMT 8
John, another book that may interest you is "Bataan Diary", by the late Captain Paul Ashton, M.D. (privately published, 1984). I would call it, in my own humble opinion, monumental. Ashton was adjutant of the Philippine Division Medical Regiment, assistant Bataan Force Surgeon, and Chief of Surgery at General Hospital #1. Although the book covers much of the military history of the campaign, there is plenty of personal memoirs and medical info in its 450+ pages, and it is full of previously unpublished photos and maps. From a historical viewpoint, the reproduction of his April 1942 Bataan Trail Map is worth the price of admission. Ashton's companion volume, "And Somebody Gives a Damn", includes more of his observations but is primarily a collection of passages by others. I would recommend it, too.
I spent 3 days at NPRC in 2003 researching a late family member's military history. It is my understanding that some of the so-called destroyed 201 Files were only damaged and are slowly, painstakingly being restored by a small staff. Apparently, there are classified 201's from WW2 and the Korean War that were locked in a vault and escaped damage altogether. When one submits an SF 180 form to request a file, expect to receive a generic form letter stating it was burned in the '73 fire. Quote the FOIA and they will look harder. Getting your Senator or Congressman's office to write a letter carries even more weight. As you probably know, Unit Reports and Morning Rosters were not damaged in the fire. Medical records are kept in another building in St. Louis (VA-RMC) and were not affected, either.
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