|
Post by okla on Oct 15, 2010 7:38:00 GMT 8
Hey Chad...In regard to the generic letter of which you speak, I received this type letter, not knowing it was "generic". It was accompanied by a copy of my DD214 which was almost identical to the copy I received several years before at the time of my Discharge. The letter stated that the "new" DD214 had been compiled from other personnel records gathered from different locations. I never have understood where these other locations were, but have always understood that Medical Records were kept in another location rather than St Louis. It was impressed upon us fortunates who were leaving the USAF to always keep in mind "2274th Air Base Hospital" when and if needing info when filing a disability claim. I never have had to do this and have always been very thankful for this fact. I was in need (nothing of a dire nature) of exact dates as to when I was assigned to certain installations,etc. I have never been able to obtain this information, but it's not of an imperative nature. Just something I thought I needed at the time. From what you have said, it would appear that maybe the government has more personnel record material than they care for outsiders to know. Maybe this evasive nature of their recovery operation is to keep too much heat from being applied from folks who are "antsy" about getting a claim filed,etc. Whatcha think??? Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Just hope I am never in need of detailed information. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Oct 15, 2010 8:43:30 GMT 8
Thanks for the reading list, Chad. Sounds like exactly the information I'm looking for on the Bataan General Hospitals and camp medical care. Must be popular as even the used copies are a little pricey. I'll have to check the public library, too.
And thanks, too, for the tip to cite the FOIA. I thought most agencies "punished" anyone that made more work for them by using FOIA. <G> At least that seems to be my experience. Seriously, I will try again under FOIA.
Your experience is similar to mine - you just have to plug away and ask over and over. I was reminded of this today when I made my regular 30 day followup to the Army Casualty Office. It has been four months since I told them where my cousin was buried - plot, row and grave number - and so far I and my congressman and senator have been unable to determine if they have opened his case or need additional information.
The ACO people are wonderful to talk to and it is difficult to get to upset with them, but not only do they not know what the status of the recovery case is, but they have lost one of the DNA samples my family submitted - no record of even sending out the collection kit. And, of course, they know nothing about the family contacts I provided them for 8 of the other 9 unknowns buried in the communal grave with him. They talk a good line about bringing them all home, but after 67 years they can't find a body in a cemetery.
Best,
John
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Oct 15, 2010 9:07:03 GMT 8
Other records!!! - good point. I never would have though of looking for medical and dental records. Tips for finding records would just about make a forum section all in itself.
It gets really frustrating trying to find records only to be told - after waiting months - that you've requested the records from the wrong office. FWIW, if you've made the request under FOIA they are supposed to refer the request to the proper agency - as long as the other agency is under the same cabinet secretary. Unfortunately, they seem to use that as another excuse to withhold the records.
Best,
John
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Oct 15, 2010 10:46:59 GMT 8
John, yes, try other records. John and Okla, I learned things from my own digging at VA-RMC (Veteran's Affairs-Records Management Center) on Goodfellow Boulevard in St. Louis. It is in a different part of town than NPRC (National Personnel Records Center), which is on Page Avenue, and so their records weren't damaged in the fire. VA-RMC had a complete medical and dental file on my deceased family member, while NPRC had nothing, no 201 File or DD-214. Many of VA-RMC's files also include WD AGOs, DD-214s and portions of 201 Files. The catch is that in most cases, the veteran or his family had to have filed some sort of claim or applied for a benefit with the VA for them to have a record. If this was done prior to the '73 fire at NPRC, then copies of the records that VA-RMC would have solicited from NPRC should still exist at VA-RMC.
Also remember that for WW2 records we are talking about the age of carbon copies. I have seen copies of Korean War DD-214s in my own personal family research, but not any WD AGOs from WW2, however, I'll bet they are similar (can anybody check that?).
Here's what I'm getting at: When a KW vet was discharged the DD-214 he signed had about a half dozen carbon copies of it underneath. The vet was to keep the top, signed original copy and, as okla has said, it was stressed that the discharged service member should present the document to his hometown county courthouse. I know this was also true with WW2 vets. Interestingly, since it was before the age of copy machines the court recorder clerk or register of deeds was usually tasked with typing an exact, sworn copy. Other carbon copies went to the service member's 201 File (or BUPERS File if USN or USMC), the VA regional office, the Selective Service System (or local selection board, I believe), the Department of Labor and, if the member was from a National Guard unit, his home state office of veteran's affairs. I think there's a few more and I had a list where all the carbon copies were sent, but can't find it at the moment. Anyways John, I'll bet that carbon copies of WD AGOs were also sent to some of the same places for deceased WW2 members. Just my guess and can anyone jump in and say?
One more thing. Someone gave me a tip while I was doing my family research that in those days, service members in combat zones were paid up front in cash by the paymasters, and that signed receipts were required. The receipts would indicate, perhaps in some sort of code, the date and place of the payment. I called the US Army Finance Corps Museum at Fort Jackson and questioned the curator where such records were kept, but he did not know (not surprising, huh?).
Okla, the Morning Reports and Unit Rosters at NPRC will still have your name in all the units you served with and the dates you were in them, but it is very time consuming to find. However, they have researchers for hire that specialize in it.
One example of using the FOIA: I wrote NPRC that I was researching the KW service of a late family member and requested a copy of the DD-214 of another deceased veteran who was in the same company. I received a letter from NPRC saying that this veteran's records had been destroyed in the fire. Several months later I submitted the request again, but this time I quoted the FOIA. NPRC then sent a partial copy of his DD-214, with portions blacked out which they said was due to the Privacy Act. However, it listed awards he had received dating back to WW2, dates of enlistment, ranks held, and MOS.
Sorry to hear about your disappointing experiences with ACO, John. That's too bad.
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Nov 29, 2010 4:44:51 GMT 8
John, I came across this US Army Signal Corps photo showing gas gangrene patients at one of the Bataan hospitals:
|
|
|
Post by JohnEakin on Nov 29, 2010 5:14:11 GMT 8
That's amazing, thanks for posting it. I've read about the wards in the jungle, but it is hard to imagine until you see it. With a nurse in a starched white dress, of course. Wonder where her hat was (remember when nurses wore those?)
The 2nd General Hospital peaked around 7,000 beds and the only thing under cover was the OR and the nurses' stations where the charts were kept.
John
|
|
|
Post by okla on Nov 29, 2010 8:04:10 GMT 8
fHey Chad...That hospital setting ain't exactly the Mayo Clinic, is it? I have always found it amazing how those Medical Corps folks actually functioned under such conditions. Open air wards, out in the jungle. Hard to imagine. Have you ever read the excellent book "Band of Angels" ?
|
|
|
Post by okla on Nov 29, 2010 9:57:01 GMT 8
Hey John....I wonder if the nurse, cloaked in the white dress, is a Filipino Army "Angel of Mercy"?? I have always been under the impression that the American Nurses donned mishapened coveralls, dungarees,etc for the most part after the retreat into Bataan and the establishment of Hospitals 1 and 2. I have seen, tho, a photo of Chief Army Nurse Maude Davidson and her Assistant clad in regulation khaki skirt and GI shirt. Under the conditions these good people labored under I don't imagine the type of unis made much difference. I know that while in Korea in 1952-53 many of us wore about anything you could imagine. I, myself, many times wore Korean "Papa-san" shoes, my old high school football jersey, St Louis Cardinal baseball hat, etc. There was even an F-86 Fighter Pilot who wore a black derby hat with his Captain's Bars firmly attached on the front, there of. Of course, there was the pilot from Texas who wore the inevitable cowboy boots. Hawaiian shirts were also a common sight. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by EXO on Nov 29, 2010 10:48:31 GMT 8
WARNING - OFF TOPIC Reminded by your comment about the Texan pilot and his boots, did you know that Texan pilots in the RAF during WWII had a "dispensation" to wear their boots and not be considered out of uniform? It seems that HRH King George VI was inspecting the Eagle Squadrons, and noticed a fellow wearing boots. The King enquired of it, and was told (so my memory of the story goes) "He is from Texas, your Highness, " as if that was an excuse. The King replied noncommittally, 'Oh Yes!" and continued the inspection, saying nothing further of it. And there you had it -- Royal Approval.
|
|
|
Post by chadhill on Nov 30, 2010 13:32:17 GMT 8
...According to Dr. John Bumgarner of Hospital # 2, in his book "Parade of the Dead", on 11 APR 42, two days after Bataan fell, the Japanese "freed" all wounded and sick Filipino troops, about 5500 total, and instructed them to leave Hospital # 2. They were forced to join the March northwards. Colonel Jack Schwartz, M.D., a senior medical officer, protested but was ignored. Bumgarner learned that within days 800 of the Filipino patients had died. About 1500 US troops remained as patients at Hospital # 2. It's my guess that a number of the medical personnel left Hospital # 2 shortly after the departure of the Filipino patients, and probably went straight to O'Donnell. Here is a photo of wounded and sick Filipino patients as they left Hospital # 2, forced by the Japanese to join the Death March:
|
|