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Post by batteryboy on Aug 12, 2009 7:03:18 GMT 8
The T-12s (75mm SPM that were sent to the P.I.) were based on the M3 halftrack. Here's one more: Captured US M3 light tank used by the Japanese in Manila, Feb. 1945. Notice the 37mm gun is missing. This was captured just in front of Manila Hotel.
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Post by mapmaster on Aug 12, 2009 19:28:05 GMT 8
Hi batteryboy I originally thought there was a typo in your post (M2 instead of M3) of the wrecked half track and thought no more of it until now. The photos of the damaged half track (above) may be of a Gun Motor Carriage T12 or M3. Although badly damaged, the half track does not look like an M2. The M2 should have a shorter rear body with a step combined bumper combined stowage shelf at the rear of the body. The M2 also had stowage bins inside the rear body which were accessible through doors in the body sides (one each side of the vehicle behind the driver's and assistant driver's doors). The M2 should was fitted with a machine gun skate rail around the inside of the body. This could obviously have been removed, but there is no sign of the groupings of four bolt holes spaced around the armoured plate of the upper body side. Visible in two of the photos is the rear right hand side body plate where the hinges were fitted for the rear door, which indicates the vehicle is a Half Track M3. Visible in the photo from the rear is the remains of a box on the floor of the body, which is consistent with the 'in floor' ammunition storage of the GMC T12 and GMC M3. Returning to the photograph of the front of the vehicle, the armoured windscreen is folded down onto the bonnet (sorry hood) of the vehicle. This is consistent with the GMC. Perhaps it has been dislodged from it's hinges? Looking closely at the photo it is possible to see the semi-circular cut out in the top of the armoured windscreen. Again this is a feature of the GMC T12 and GMC M3. The cut out is for the 75mm gun barrel at rest. The M2 and M3 half tracks armoured windscreen were hinged along the top edge and folded up-wards to be supported on folding shafting supports. I have no photos except in current publication. However the image below shows a GMC T14 or M3 with the armoured windscreen, with cut out, folded onto the bonnet. There are too many features visible in the photos not to consider this to be a GMC. The original gun is gone, the vehicle being used as an artillery tractor by it's new owners. Regards mapmaster
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Post by batteryboy on Aug 12, 2009 23:03:33 GMT 8
Nice points. You may well just be right...
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Post by chadhill on Oct 29, 2010 8:29:03 GMT 8
Stack of 100 pounders that apparently are stenciled "PRACTICE BOMBS", captured on Bataan. Photo from ultra-rare book "Philippine Expeditionary Force", by Gasei, published by the Japanese in occupied Manila in 1943. (The photos above of captured rifles are found in this book also.) Batteryboy, here's a couple of tank pics for you from the same book. The first photo was taken on Bataan: This photo is in the Corregidor assault section of the book. It is not the only one that shows trees still standing. Torpedoes captured on Corregidor: Could this be the 1.1 inch pom-pom AAA gun that was taken out with Searchlight # 8 on Malinta Hill, on Hirohito's birthday, 4/29/42? The photo is in the Corregidor assault section of the book. Finally from "Philippine Expeditionary Force" is this Bataan photo of the "Peeping Tom" observation balloon, which was aloft over Cabcaben and spotting on 4/29.
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Post by batteryboy on Oct 29, 2010 17:58:06 GMT 8
Hi Chad,
Nice post. Some comments:
The 100 pd practice bombs were most likely taken at Clark when it was occupied. They were still in the same neat arrangement as in a similar 1941 photo.
The photo of the late version Type 97 Chi-ha with troops marching is also most likely taken from Bataan and not from Corregidor.
Thanks for sharing! Cheers,
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Post by chadhill on Oct 29, 2010 23:38:49 GMT 8
Hi Batteryboy,
Thanks for your input. The photo of the practice bombs being taken at Clark makes sense to me. The Japanese editors placed it next to the captured rifles photo shown earlier in this thread, and that is well into the Bataan assault section of the book. But I can't think of a good reason why such bombs would have been transported into the penninsula.
I'm no Japanese armor buff, but that tank in the second ("Corregidor") photo looks like a Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha, with the extended turret and rear facing machine gun. If I am not mistaken, this later version saw its combat debut on Corregidor. The hip roof, on the building behind the tank, had some popularity on Corregidor. A second tank can be vaguely seen in front of this tank, but I can't ID it. The Japanese words might be interesting to translate.
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Post by batteryboy on Oct 30, 2010 8:19:28 GMT 8
Chad,
The trees and the structure, plus the road does not fit any of the Corregidor outline plus you can see the ditch is similar to the roadside of Bataan. That's my opinion.
When the late Chi-ha landed on Corregidor, it was bogged down and had to be towed by a captured M3 Stuart. Japanese tanks, despite the myth did not play any significant battle role except for the psychological effect.
Regards,
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Post by chadhill on Oct 31, 2010 0:44:15 GMT 8
Wow Batteryboy, you really got me thinking. Fortunately, I'm off from work today and mostly (sorta) caught up on my honey-do lists . Anyway, for starters I apologize for the grainy appearance some of my black and white scans have; I don't understand why it happens, have tried without luck to correct it, and am open to any suggestions. Here's a repeat of the photo in question: After some digging around I found this undated photo of North Dock. Interesting ship's mast in the water. But anyways, I was struck by the building with the hip roof in the curve of the road. The road is on top of an earth bank, and the trees are similar to ones in the tank pic. There is a hill in the left background of the tank photo. It occurred to me that if I was standing near the curve in the road and looking at the building with my back to North Dock, Malinta Hill would be on my left. I took these aerial shots in 1986: All this doesn't prove where the tank photo was taken, but I suspect it may have been at the curve in the road where the hip roofed building is. The Type 97 tank is about to follow the column of troops around the corner and head south across Bottomside, paralleling Malinta Hill. In the mid 80s, the late Corregidor vet Max McClain told me about the M3 Stuart towing the Japanese tanks off the beach. At that time I do not think that was widely known by historians or buffs in the USA. The Type 97's saw little, if any, combat on Corregidor, like you said. There even seems to be a question whether ammo for them was off loaded until late in the day. Maybe someday I can get together with you and the other guys, re-explore Corregidor, and have some cold San Miguels.
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Post by batteryboy on Oct 31, 2010 7:15:20 GMT 8
Hi Chad, Thanks for sharing the pics. The ship mast may most likely belong to President Quezon presidential yacht "Casiana" which was sunk in that vicinity. If the tank was towed, then it should ahve been at Cavalry Pt and going to vicinity of the south road near Kindley field. I doubt if (again just my opinion) if they took time to put the tank bank in the barge and then move it to north dock. However, your points can hold ground and you might be right afterall. that's the beauty of these discussions, it makes you think twice, thrice and even more. Anyway, this was propaganda photo and if it was in Corregidor, a tank would indeed make a nice addition to the photo. To add: Here is the 1941 photo of the US 100pd practice bombs I mentioned earlier at Clark: First round of San Miguels are on me! Cheers,
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Post by chadhill on Oct 31, 2010 8:20:07 GMT 8
Hi Batteryboy, The "Philippine Expeditionary Force" also has this post surrender photo showing all three tanks: Because of the arrangement of the rear wheels, carriage and track, I think that the tank partially shown on the left is probably the M3 Stuart, with the Type 97s on the right (kind of hard to see the rear one). I've thought that this photo was taken looking away from outside the west entrance (yes, west entrance) of Malinta Tunnel. I've been searching for old pictures that would show the background buildings to confirm it, but have been unable to find much in that regard so far. Isn't the road in the background the one that goes from San Jose Bottomside to Topside? Anybody? The road from San Jose Bottomside to Topside, 1986. I'm also curious about the white figures painted on the car under "USN". If they are Japanese figures then that makes me think this photo may have been taken well past May 6. Propaganda purposes like you said, bb. Yes, you're right on about those 100 pound practice bombs, Batteryboy. I've even looked at the surrounding blades of grass and they are still at Clark. After the San Miguels, the next round of Red Horse is on me Regards, Chad
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