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Post by fots2 on Nov 23, 2011 20:56:57 GMT 8
Hi Phantom,
If you look closely at the map inland of the Enlisted Men’s Swimming Beach, you will notice that the path of the North Shore Road is different today than before the war. SMSH #5 and three buildings NW of it do not exist anymore.
I agree that the first building does not look military but zoom in on the map here. I never noticed this but there is an arrow to this building showing it to have been one of the three magazines. It certainly was not the usual type of magazine.
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Post by okla on Nov 23, 2011 22:33:56 GMT 8
Hey Fots....You have "sealed the deal". After prowling thru my limited collection of Corregidor lore, I find no mention of any NW Tunnel. The tragic shelling event had, as you so correctly said, to have taken place at the NORTH Tunnel. In fact, I have never heard of any NW Tunnel. Is this portal something relatively new that has only recently (probably by you and your compadres) been exposed to view? I feel like an idiot for not picking up on the "NW" label, especially when viewing that humble, little entrance as compared to the more standard Malinta Tunnel type portal that graces the "official", for lack of a better term, north entrance to the Hospital. This is good stuff for me to wallow in thruout the Holiday weekend. This entrance still shows plenty of shrapnel damage. Methinks, that being on the exposed side of Malinta Hill to the Japanese Bataan batteries, that the devastating "hit" was just one of many before April and early May 1942 ended. Thanks for posting.
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Post by fots2 on Nov 24, 2011 18:29:31 GMT 8
Hi okla, Many people reading this web site are aware of the NW tunnel but in general I think it is not widely known. One thing that probably keeps it that way are Malinta Tunnel maps that do not show this entrance as existing. Have a look at this widely published tunnel map. No NW entrance here. Malinta Tunnel map outside the west entrance that tourists look at every day. I added a red line to show you where the tunnel is located. Inside the 1000 Bed Hospital, here is a look at the NW corner. The tunnel entrance is below the airshaft. Slide under the concrete and it is straight out to the cliff face as seen in photos a few posts above. As long as I have been going to Corregidor, the entrance has been open. During war time with most trees missing, I am sure you can see it from the North Shore Road. Even today I can see the road down through the trees below the entrance. I have no idea if it was always open or closed during the war and reopened at some later date. I have never read anything that specifically mentions this tunnel. I made the suggestion that this may have been from where the Japanese dashed out in an attempt to get water but that is only speculation based on nothing similar being found nearby. Valtin is not clear about that location and what people get out of his book is open to interpretation. The history of this tunnel is another of the many unknowns on this island. Corregidor never gets boring.
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Post by okla on Nov 24, 2011 22:44:42 GMT 8
Hey Fots....I will say it one more time, "you continue to amaze me". Thanks for giving me the straight "skinny" pertaining to the NW Tunnel. A special thanks for posting the map and pic of the inside portal. I have never viewed any map of the Malinta Tunnel Complex that indicated any NW Tunnel. Everything was similar or like the map on the billboard or what is depicted on the inside covers or index sections of the numerous books dealing with our "favorite" place. You the man.
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Post by The Phantom on Nov 24, 2011 23:34:29 GMT 8
Looking at Martyn's 1936 map at 400 magnification online fots I still think that building pictured above is a Bath House.
I agree that the road has been changed from 1936, there was a straight north jog in the road back then for a very short stretch.
There were 2 magazines, one on each side of the road, east and west at that point in the road back in 1936. They were probably there to supply the defensive position on top of Malinta Point and surrounding areas.
S.M.S.H. and the western magazine, and one of the bathhouses were indeed lost due to straightening of the road. The new road takes out the short jog north and follows the cliff face of Malinta Hill more closely, ( probably taking with it some more Japanese tunnels in the soft rock there).
These locations are all south of the road on the map not north my friend. I never know my directions on Corregidor as the roads are so full of twists and turns. ( That's why my son gave me a compass, so I don't mistakenly fall into the sea off some cliff.)
There is still a culvert pictured on the 1936 map present today in its original location. What stories it could tell.
I also considered the building style of the bath houses off of Officers Beach in my determination of that building as a possible bath house.
Another area to revisit between beers at Mac Arthur's.
Your turn........................
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Post by fots2 on Nov 25, 2011 9:01:56 GMT 8
Hi Phantom, I think I see the source of the confusion. The new 1936 map we are using has a line missing when compared to the original 1936 map. This line goes from the word ‘Magazine’ to the first building that I showed you in the report. The missing line is difficult to see on the 1936 map but clearer on the 1932 map. Here is a crop of the 1932 map without anything being labeled by me. Second, I added some arrows to highlight what I think are original arrows on that map. If I mentioned anywhere that the three buildings in the report are north of the road, that was an error. By saying ‘inland’, I mean south of the road which is on the left-hand side as you walk back to Bottomside. The two Bath Houses, one Magazine and SMSH #5 on the inland side of the map’s road are gone now. A rectangular building close to the beach (north of the road) probably was a bath house. It still has ceramic tiles and bath stalls that are easy to see. I never did see any remnants of the machine gun position labeled IV-M-1.
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Post by chadhill on Nov 26, 2011 11:09:30 GMT 8
Ah yes, I remember this thread...one of my favorites. Fots, I see that during my absence you have continued on with your usual outstanding efforts. Please advise us when you will finally publish your long awaited book. I want to be first in line for your autograph! Okla, on April 24th, 1942 at 9:58 p.m. a 240 mm shell exploded outside the west entrance of Malinta Tunnel, killing 14 and wounding 70. The group had gathered outside for an evening smoke in violation of standing orders. According to the Belotes in "Saga" on page 120, there were two shells that hit, one a dud. Tunnel hospital nurse Juanita Redmond, in "I Served on Bataan", page 144, seems to infer both shells exploded. The first one blew the gate shut, the second landed in the crowd. Here is an air raid drill outside the west entrance...notice the "NO SMOKING" sign. Officer on left exhails his last puff before entering to resume his duties inside- Photo courtesy of fots2:
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Post by fots2 on Nov 26, 2011 19:32:34 GMT 8
Hi chadhill,
I am glad that you caught the misinformation I posted in Reply #109. Thanks for that. That must have been one of my midnight posts. As you say, this incident occurred outside the west entrance.
Photos like that are a real snapshot of a moment in time. Boy, would I love to run with them into the tunnels to explore. Since it is my fantasy, security clearance would not be a problem and I could go anywhere. First stop, those Navy tunnels. ;D
Lets go okla!!!
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Post by okla on Nov 26, 2011 22:59:31 GMT 8
Hey Guys....Sometimes I think I have lost what's left of my mind, but I have been under the impression for almost 70 years that the folks killed by the Japanese .240 shell were out side the North Tunnel. Now, where I got that notion is lost in the distant past. Maybe I read it back during the War and the report was erroneous as were so many reports from the PI in those days, i.e. Haruna sinking, initial Lingayen landings repulsed,etc. Maybe senility is making it's unwelcome appearance. Whatever, I am always glad to get the straight "scoop" from more learned PI Campaign "geeks". I read the Juanita Redmond book way back in 1943 when it initially appeared in supplement form in the now defunct, Liberty Magazine. I was eleven years of age at the time. As for that pic of the troops bugging back into Malinta, I, as usual, couldn't help but wonder what the ultimate fate was of the Officer getting in that "last drag" from his cigarette. Betcha, if he knew then what we know now about the health risks involved in cigarette smoking, he would probably still light up another. Under his circumstances, who could blame him? Those close ups of individual faces never fail to grab at me. Fots...My Top Secret Security Clearance has been expired for lo these many years, but I am game for a dash into Malinta, but I shan't venture into some of those cracks and crevices in which you dearly love to lurk. Chad...Thanks for clearing up my mistaken view of that "horrific" event outside the WEST portal of the Tunnel. Most people would say, to me, "what's the big deal, North, West, who cares", but I want my facts concerning the "Rock" to be beyond reproach, I say. Cheers. '
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Post by fots2 on Nov 27, 2011 0:20:17 GMT 8
Hey okla, chances are high that more than a few of those in that photo did not survive the war due to the POW camps, hell ships or forced labor.
I agree about wanting our facts to be ‘beyond reproach’ too. That is a struggle at times but worth the effort. Chadhill helps a lot with that.
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