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Post by Karl Welteke on Jul 18, 2010 17:59:52 GMT 8
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Post by okla on Jul 18, 2010 23:57:09 GMT 8
Hey Karl...Very interesting stuff. One thing bugs me about the dates. The stones dated 1944 must be for personnel executed elsewhere in the PI (Leyte???) for crimes committed in earlier phases of the Liberation of the PI. Since Clark didn't fall into American hands till early 1945, were these 1944 executed soldiers removed from graves in the Central and Southern PI and reburied at Clark during a later period. I realize that this isn't, in the least, very important but my over active imagination has kicked in once again. You probably have a very short and simple answer that I haven't had the sense to recognize about this intriguing circumstance. Kinda sad viewing these graves and reading the names. Here are guys who traveled halfway around the globe, only to foul up and face a hangman's noose or a firing squad. What a waste, methinks.
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Post by EXO on Jul 19, 2010 8:13:09 GMT 8
Fernandez' case, I know because I have published about it, was that he was transferred from his place of conviction (Queensland, which did not have a death penalty) to New Guinea (which did.) There was a military stockade at Oro Bay, and he was hung there.
Others too, going by the "bad boys" list.
Post-war, as a part of the closure of the many small cemeteries throughout the SWPA Area, all remains (honorable and dishonorable) were transferred to Manila. (Remains in Australia were remitted to Hawaii.) The authorities justifiably excluded the remains of the dishonorables from being interred along with with the "honored dead" at the then being reconstructed Ft. McKinley cemetery. Good call. Clark, which was a civilian and pre-war military cemetery, was an appropriate place.
Actually, I am surprised they buried the bad boys facing towards the flag. I had seen somewhere where the policy was to bury such away from , not towards the flag.
Have no sympathy for them, please. They were bad boys who all knew better, but who all had decided at the crucial decision point in their lives to murder for the meanest of motives.
There is something very discomforting about the extra-territoriality of laws that apply to visiting armies, and about taking a prisoner from a jurisdiction in which no death penalty exists into one in which it does. That's an issue of laws. In Fernandez' instance, I think the greater issue was justice, not laws.
We've become too focused on laws, and have strayed too far from the fundamentals of justice. I'm out of here, I have the war to concentrate on.
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Post by okla on Jul 19, 2010 8:59:23 GMT 8
Hey EXO...These guys are getting no sympathy from me. I am just saying what a waste they made of their lives and they had to travel half way around the world to screw up. As for the "jurisdiction laws, I gotta agree. To my way of thinking, if an American service man commits a crime, no matter what country during wartime conditions, he should be punished under American law. As for the Marines on Okinawa who committed recent (rape) crimes against Japanese citizens, then they ought to face Japanese judges and juries,etc. These offenses were against "friendly" civilians during peacetime and in my humble these creeps should face local justice. Just my take on it. Postscript...Many thanks for clearing up my original query on the 1944 death dates and how they ended up at Clark. Small details such as this worry me no end. Senility, I suppose.
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Post by dmether on Jan 20, 2011 19:04:16 GMT 8
For those graves on Clark, it's hard to find any info on them, what I've found is: Henry Baker-hanged Harold Crabtree-shot Ernest J. Harris Ellis McCloud, Jr.-hanged Harvey W. Nichols-hanged Albert Williams-hanged Bradley Jr. Walters-hanged James C.Thomas-hanged. Ozell Louis-hanged Dan J. Lee-shot James Norman-hanged William Abney-hanged Private Stratman Armistead, 32, hanged for murdering 4 Japanese with a hammer. Date of death, 16 Nov 1948. Place: Yokohama, Japan
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Post by okla on Jan 20, 2011 23:51:09 GMT 8
Hey Demether...I would be interested in knowing whether the last mentioned soldier, Pvt Armistead, was, maybe, an ex POW. While I was in the USAF, a Death March/Hell Ship survivor/slave laborer in a Japanese coal mine etc, told me a story about an ex POW encountering, on the streets of Nagoya, one of the more sadistic guards (also his wife and two children) who had brutalized him and fellow POWs. This GI, who was serving in the occupation forces in Nippon, went completely off his rocker and almost killed the whole family (none died). Of course, he was quickly rotated back to the ZI and strangely enough remained in the military with little or no punishment. Psych treatment, in all probability. Needless to say, his personnel records were notated with some "code" saying, in essence, "this man is never to serve in the Orient. ZI and European duty only". This event, if memory serves, was supposed to have happened in 1947 or 48. Maybe his lenient treatment would not have occurred, had it been in later years. The stories of POW atrocities were still fresh when this event took place. I have no reason to doubt this story told to me by the former POW friend of mine. I served with him for a year in 1952-53 in Korea. He usually didn't talk too much about his trials and tribulations at the hands of the Emperor's lads. Thought you might find this little tidbit interesting. Cheers.
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