Death March Markers

[chadhill]

This photo was taken looking south over the Tuol Pocket area in 1986.

That Death March rifle memorial was right off the road in Bagac, as I recall, and practically in someone's front yard.




(added enlarged photo)

[chadhill]

Looking south from the Pantingan River bridge on the Pilar-Bagac road, 1986.




(added enlarged photo)

[okla]

Hey Chad...Thanks for the Tuol Pocket pics. I have long felt that this particular battle has been overlooked in "discussions",etc about the Bataan Campaign. It was one time (along with the "Points" fights) where the Fil/American guys got their "time at bat". The Tuol Sector, to me at least, is another one of those places where "ghosts literally walk at midday" as a Park Ranger at the Little Bighorn Battlefield Museum once described that particular Monument to me way back in 1969. Postcript....I am most glad that you have joined this forum. You have stuff to post (pics,etc) since you were actually stationed in the PI and can actually contribute material. I, regretfully can do nothing but "kitbitz", but I do try not to be a "pest" or "get in the way". I hope that some of my questions prompt the "on site" folks, who do reside in the Philippines, to come forth with more of their "good stuff" to share with us guys back here in the states who will never get to visit the PI. Postscript....Appreciate the views of 1980s Camp O'Donnell. Can't imagine how "bleak" it was in the spring of 1942. The 1980s Carabao, depicted in your photo, were getting more water and forage than the 1942 POWS. I was fortunate enough in the early 1950s USAF to have known a few of the 1942 residents of O'Donnell who were still serving in the Armed Forces. My respect for them continues to grow to this day.

[chadhill]

Okla, thank you for the kind comments. I wasn't too sure about posting these old pics of mine, but you've given me the inspiration to push on. I'll try to limit them to those that are unusual, or can be compared in a "Then and Now" setting.

Did those POW vets you encountered say much about their experiences?

[okla]

Hey Chad....As I said, most of the ex-POWs I knew were people I served with in the USAF (1951-55) My nephew married a girl whose grand father served in the 31st Infantry Regt (US) on Bataan. He was taken prisoner when Gen'l King surrendered his forces, but this guy had been wounded (or was down with malaria,etc) and didn't make the "Death March", but, evidently was moved from hospital with other patients to either Cabanatuan or maybe Bilibid in Manila. When liberated in 1945 he was in the hospital at Bilibid. His mother (nephew's wife's mother) said that he remarked about being on work details at Clark Field on different occasions so his health improved enough to do heavy duty labor repairing that installation for the Japanese. He passed away several years before I became acquainted with his daughter and grand daughter. I would have loved to have picked his brain had he been willing to discuss his misfortunes at the hands of the Emperor's lads. All the other men that I knew were veterans of Bataan and the Death March except one who was an anti aircraft gunner on Corregidor. I suppose he would have been in the 60th Coast Artillery Regiment (AA). One of the Bataan men was a gunner on one of the B-17s that was destroyed at Clark on Dec 8, 1941. He and many other such misfortunates were issued Springfield .03s and were placed in what was called the Air Corps Provisional Regt,etc or some such named unit. Ironically he was married to a Japanese woman who he had met while in Japan on occupation duty in 1947 or 48. He was from Oklahoma, as am I, and I felt a little more at ease hitting him up about his experiences. This was in Korea in 1952 and 53. He was a M/Sgt NCOIC of the Wing Materiel Section (G-4) and I was a lowly Buck Sergeant in Wing Ops/Inetelligence Section, next door from his work station. We also lived in the same quonset hut so I had ample opportunity to "grill" him, but I always could sense when I was approaching that "line" where he was getting reluctant to elaborate further. He did say, when I inquired about how he felt about marrying a Japanese woman after what he had gone thru, that you just had to understand that they were a different breed of cat with different beliefs,etc. He told me that he saw a Japanese officer brutally beat one of the guards (on the march) literally to death because he had fallen out due to a heat stroke,etc. Brutality was just one of their traits or behavior patterns. Anyhow, I have gone on too long, but yeah, these men talked up to a point. I wish now that I had probed a bit more, but at the time I wasn't as "up to snuff" on the whole Corregidor/Bataan operation, so my questions were limited in scope. One thing they all were in agreement on. They, to a man, initially believed that help was on the way from the states. Along about March 1942 most of them were beginning to feel that they were trapped. This view probably started setting in when Gen'l MacArthur escaped to Mindanao and thence to Australia. That whole Philippine campaign in 1942, to me, was akin to a Greek Tragedy. They were doomed from the git go and most of them didn't realize it initially. A look at a map of the Pacific and the distances involved should have been like a bucket of cold water in the face. A real gut check so to speak. Nice talking to you. Hope I didn't wear you out, but I am totally obsessed with that long ago event. Lots of folks have forgotten or don't even know about it, but not at my house. Cheers.

[chadhill]

That's very interesting, okla. I have a friend at work whose late father was also in the 31st Infantry and survived the war, but his son said he rarely spoke of his experiences. I guess some of them would open up to each other, like at reunions, but were reluctant to talk to others. Then there were those like the one I befriended in the 80s, Max McClain, who would loosen up and talk after a few San Miguels.

As I recall, Max didn't have a high opinion of MacArthur, after he left Corregidor. I guess that made the truth finally set in, as you suggested. In 1991 I visited Hallie Dyess, Ed Dyess's mother. Although well into her 90s, she was still very sharp. She said that Dyess's squadron mate Sam Grashio, whom she still was in contact with, had not cared for MacArthur, either.

One of my projects is trying to track down details of WT2C John Porter Derrington, an aquaintance of my mother. He served on the USS Canopus and later belonged to the Naval Provisional Infantry Battalion that fought at Longoskawayan Point and Mount Pucot. They later transferred to Corregidor as part of the 4th Battalion, 4th Marines and as you know saw heavy action the night of 5-6 May '42. NARA records state he became a POW on May 7. I have learned that he died in Cabanatuan on September 22, 1942. If anyone out there has any info I would greatly appreciate it.

[okla]

Hey Chad....It would appear that you have had some very interesting contacts with survivors of that long ago campaign also and with men mentioned in various books,etc. I wonder just how many guys who were actually in the Philippines when the war started are still alive? I forgot to mention in my previous message that while stationed in Great Falls, Montana (Malstrom AFB, it is now called) that we held a parade for a Sgt Leroy Becraft, from Missouri, in order for him to receive a Bronze Star for bravery, earned during the January 1942 fighting on the Abucay Line. This was in the spring of 1952. It had taken 10 years for the paperwork,etc to catch up in order for Sgt Becraft to receive this award. Of course, the initial recommendation didn't go forward until, probably 1946, when all concerned were back in the states and their respective health,etc was getting back to normal and it was possible to pursue such long delayed activities. That was one of the few parades that I ever took part in that I didn't resent. Usually they served no purpose in my mind. Some Assistant to an Assistant of the USAF, some insignificant member of the House Committee on Armed Forces, on some type government junket,etc. For those vets receiving awards for bravery, I will stand formation/parades anytime, day or night, warm of cold weather. As for Genl Douglas MacArthur, I have mixed feelings. I think we can all agree that he was a great General. He was masterful in the governing and rebuilding of Japan. He was superior in his handling of the Pacific War on the road back to Tokyo. But I still think he had serious flaws. The initial events on Luzon was badly handled, but he passed the buck, blaming others. Same thing in the rush to the Yalu. Kimmel and Short were Court Martialed, but none for Genl Mac for the Clark Field diaster. It was always somebody else's fault when things went wrong. Methinks, his military reputation, while mostly positive, was continually enhanced by his sycophant staff, especially Chief of Staff Richard Sutherland. Was there anybody on the planet who didn't despise that man??? But the thing I hold most against MacArthur was his blocking Genl "Skinny" Wainwright from receiving the Congressional Medal of Honor early in the war. As I get it, President Truman pushed the award thru over MacArthur's wishes in 1945 or 46. It would seem that it was part of Douglas MacArthur's makeup to hinder any recognition of anybody else if it might take away some of the luster that surrounded him. Again, I have ranted and raved too long. There were a couple of other Bataan vets that I knew that had some unusual or "colorful" incidents that I was part of or witnessed, but I will save those for another time. Remind me sometime to tell you about M/Sgt Luth, CWO Lono and M/Sgt Warner (I think his name was). Cheers.

[EXO]

Life is tough at the Top

Mac always gets the bum's rush concerning the B-17's being caught at Clark. Fine, he's got broad shoulders - but take into account at least the following:

(a) Mac was under direct and specific orders NOT to initiate hostilities against the Japanese; This was not a discretion, but a basic directive. Only Captain Kirk disobeys basic directives and gets away with it, which of course assists us to come to the conclusion that Captain Kirk was therefore a more perfect commander than Gen Mac. (Hey, we're in the realm of fiction here, aren't we?)

(b) on three occasions, Mac had ordered all the squadrons to be sent south to Mindanao some weeks previouslybecause he knew they could not be protected at Clark; In a direct breach of orders, for which Brereton probably should have been court-martialled, only half had been; the official line was that the move of the squadrons south was "in the process of being accomplished."

(c) the truth was that the remainder were still at Clark, because of normal bureaucratic & human inertia, plus invitations to General Brereton's Birthday Party at the Manila Hotel on the night of 7 December; by accounts, it was a world class party.

(d) thus, it is likely MacArthur was not aware, until he was told the aircraft were there, that they were there;

(e) some officers, who had rushed back to Clark from the Brereton party, had used up the oxygen in their aircraft as a hangover cure; time was needed to recharge the oxygen supply before the aircraft were ready for a mission;

( f ) The aircraft were early models, under-gunned, only one power turret, no chin turret, no ball turret, and entirely undeserving of the repute "Fortress." In the event they actually had been pitted against the Japanese in the air, they certainly would have been shot down. Historians recognize that the weakness of the force "precluded success" and the term "suicidal" was also used. Thus, the loss of the B-17's probably happened one or two days before they ultimately and most certainly would have been wiped out. They were a MacGuffin force.

(g) I am not even bothering to examine the roles that Sutherland and Quezon played in the sad affairs and how they would both interfere with the defense of the Philippines.

But what of it? There was one fact above all...

The most unarguable fact of all was that the United States had never provided the personnel or matériel adequate to defend the Philippines.

Of course, Mac was on top of the local operations and therefore was responsible. However, there were people far higher than he that he took orders from, and they were in Washington. It was not the first time, nor would it ever be the last, that Washington made grievous errors, and accepted no blame and no responsibility for them.

Apologies for being off topic. Now, where were we? Yes, great photos by Chadhill, in this thread and generally, really an eye opener to be taken back all those years.

[okla]

Hey EXO....Can't argue with a single point you have made, especially concerning bombing missions to Formosa. Methinks, those B-17s would have been slaughtered, plus even if no Japanese aircraft were involved in intercepting the American formations, I serously doubt if there would have been much "dropping bombs into a pickle barrel" as claimed could have been done. The Norden Bombsight be damned. There were numerous incidents in the bombing of Germany where we missed the target by miles. Also, if the heavily armed Fortresses in use by the 8th AF in 1944-45 had a very tough time warding off ME-109s and FW-190s, those 1941 Models, as you said, would have been juicy pickings for the Japanese interceptors. Only my humble. But yes, there was plenty of blame to go around. Those early days were a comedy of errors, and the original inertia in MacArthur's Manila Headquarters (for whatever reason) set the tone for those first days/weeks. It would seem to me that enough hostilities had been initiated by Japan. My God, Pearl Harbor had been bombed and Baguio (if Pearl wasn't reason enough to respond) had suffered an attack. The US not responding till Japan initiated hostilities is, to me, kinda lame as a reason for dallying. Again, only my humble and my apologies for being off topic also, but I still get frustrated just thinking about how unprepared, especially mentally, we were for a major conflict in the Pacific. The hindsight 20-20 thing again.

[tomasctt]

Great pix!

I'm planning a Death March trek next year. It'll start at Death March Km. 0 on 9 April 2011, then walk all the way to San Fernando, Pampanga. From there, it's a bike ride to the two memorials at Capas, Tarlac. Still in the conceptual stage (and I still need to get me a decent mountain bike ;D ), main problem being logistics and security (either staying at inns along the route or camping). Anyone interested in joining me on this week-long historical trek?