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Post by beirutvet on Jul 24, 2014 0:11:51 GMT 8
Hi Patty
I like your find, but as for no flag pre-war, take a close look at the photo you posted of the entire length of MLB. Is that a smudge on the picture or is that a flag I see at the location of where that pole would be? While it may be too far to see the pole itself, there does seem to be something about where a flag would be if that pole were there. Can you see what I am referring to?
Also some of your pics make it appear as though the whole structure in question is rising from the INSIDE of the ruins of MLB. Too difficult to confirm from these photos.
If they are coming from the inside of the ruins, I am more inclined to think they are Japanese built(still a swag, though) as I could not see Americans raising those structures in the middle of being the most bombed site (per square mile) on earth, but still not sure.
As for the pole, its bent portion at the top could be from battle damage so still possible it is pre-war as it is not attached to the unknown structure in question.
Is anyone else having fun with this, or is it just the ramblings of a nit-picker?
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 21, 2014 11:43:39 GMT 8
Update:
In the photo above showing the structure, it appears as though the antenna/flagpole is attached to the shed on the right. While searching through the 23 part documentary "War in the Pacific" circa 1950s, it shows a view of post surrender Mile Long Barracks from the south side of the parade ground in front of and possibly from a 2nd story balcony of one of the senior officer family quarters and comparing the two views it is apparent that the pole is about 20 to 30 feet north of the structure, not attached to it. This could possibly complicate the idea of it being a pole for signal flags. If it were for semaphore purposes, wouldn't the logical thing be to attach it to the comm shed?
I keep going back to observation and communications purposes, but wouldn't something so obvious be targeted by the Japanese? If I were the Japanese artillery commander, and it was possible that this OP was being used to direct the mortar fire from Way and Geary, I would direct every salvo at that structure until it was obliterated. Granted, I was a pilot not an artilleryman, but even we had Forward Air Controllers and if I knew the location of an enemy FAC that was directing devastating fire on my troops, as those mortars were doing to the Japanese, I would have expended ALL spare ammo at neutralizing that site. Which then begs, was it hastily constructed by the Japanese after the surrender? Hi Patty
Love those photos. Where did you get them? MLB looks so pristine. Such a contrast to most all photos I have seen and the way it looks today. And Cine Corregidor and the Bachelor Officers Quarters, and you can even make out the trolley station on the corner in front of the cinema. Loved them, do you have any more? Would love to see them.
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 21, 2014 3:30:00 GMT 8
Hello Chadhill
I agree with you, I have a hard time believing these are AA positions, for several reasons, not the least of which you agreed that there is a limited field of fire here. Why would you build two of them right next to each other and limit their field of fire? In the heat of battle you run the risk of them accidentally shooting each other.
Also, why would you put a flag pole on top of it to mark its position for enemy attack? As a pilot, I would love it if the enemy would mark each of its locations so conspicuously. To me, it would just put up a big red flag (pun intended) that said, "here I am, come and get me".
Not having any maps, I am not sure where Morrison hill is. This is certainly not Battery Way either as you can clearly see that this structure seems to be on the service road directly behind Mile Long Barracks. Is that where Morrison Hill is?
As for the diagrams, the first one has construction that is perpendicular to the ground as the structure in question. But look at the diagram and then the picture. The structure in question has lattice work that is MUCH more elaborate then the structure in the diagram. The second diagrams construction is not at perfect right angles but is slanted inward giving a more pyramid or cone shape to it, very different from the structure in question.
And you will want to examine the 'report of completed works', (fabulous find, by the way, never heard of these towers before and never seen them even mentioned in other accounts) their height is listed at 28' 4". The Mile Long Barracks are 3 stories tall, and of tropical construction, meaning higher than normal ceilings. This would put their height alone at over 35-40 feet, correct? And these towers are at least 20 plus feet above MLB. This would put their height at over 60 feet not 28'4". Do you concur? And their stated elevation is recorded at 410'. I believe I read somewhere that the elevation of topside was the better part of 600 feet. So even if it were a good 50' below topsides highest point, it would still be considerably higher than the stated 410'.
Take a close look at the shed on the right. Doesn't it seem to have an enclosure within the shed in the south east portion closest to the camera? Perhaps to house radio equipment if the flagpole is in fact an antenna? And as for the left hand structure, I am still trying to figure out what that section is that extends outside of the shed, also in the south east corner, closest to the camera.
As for the antenna/flagpole, possible semaphore communication with the rest of the island, other forts and Bataan to maintain radio silence? It is at or near the highest point on the island and very close to MacArthurs headquarters when it was located in Mile Long Barracks. Just swagging here.
Another anomaly, I do not think an AA gun emplacement would have a roof on it as the planes have a tendency to be ABOVE you, not just in front of you. You would need them to have full elevation.
So much cool stuff and fun people, I LOVE THIS WEBSITE!
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 20, 2014 0:36:49 GMT 8
Hello All
I was recently viewing stock footage of Japanese propaganda film and saw something I never saw before and have never seen mention of in the past. It showed the center section of Mile Long Barracks in May of 42, just after the surrender. It appears to be taken from the road in front of MLB and behind it is what looks like scaffolding and on top is two wooden shed like structures that resemble guard towers.
Has anyone seen these before? I do not know if they were hastily constructed by the Japanese or if they were American built. They are VERY exposed for being in the middle of such a bombed and shelled island like Corregidor and appear to be very flimsy in construction. as such, I have doubts that they are American built as I would think the Japanese could have easily spotted it and quickly razed it, but stranger things have been known to happen. The two "sheds" appear a good 20 feet above the roof of MLB and I am sure would have been easily spotted and targeted from Bataan. But why would the Japanese build them? The island had already been taken and the lighthouse, however damaged was still standing and would have provided a 360 degree ready made observation post. The west shed has a clear view to the north, west and south. The east shed is similarly constructed but the view from this shed is blocked by the west shed. The east shed also appears to have some kind of antenna attached to it. Possible communications tower? If it is, why not put it on the highest point on the island? Why not put that on the light house instead of in so exposed a position as that? It could have been easily destroyed by allied air attacks. The light house would have gotten less attention from aerial recon than a previously unknown new structure where none had been before. Japanese hubris, perhaps?
The structures can be viewed on the website criticalpast.com. Go to Corregidor, and it is the 5th video in entitled 'U.S. Gen Wainwright and officers at surrender conference as Japanese win the battle of Corregidor in World War II'. It is narrated in Japanese so I am not able to understand what is being said in the film clip which is only 1 minute and 10 seconds long. The structure appears right at the end of the clip. I would post it here, however, when it comes to technology, I am barely one level up from an Amish elder during a power failure.
Merely out of curiosity, any info, thoughts or swags would be appreciated
Thanks
P.S. Apologies ahead of time if this was discussed in a previous thread that I have yet to come across. This site is huge and am still having much fun exploring it.
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 19, 2014 23:40:48 GMT 8
Hello mapmaster Some of your pictures and sketches have been removed over time, is it possible to still see them somewhere? would love to pour over them thanks
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 14, 2014 21:41:04 GMT 8
Hi Fots2
I'm sorry, check for a PM? I'm not sure what you mean, can you clarify for me?
thanks
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 14, 2014 7:24:18 GMT 8
Howdy Phantom
Glad to share my info with anyone, especially those so very interested in these things.
First off, maybe you would consider my opinion to be biased, but I consider that veranda to be one of my favorite places in the WHOLE world. You are right, no better place to start the day, but also no better place to end the day. To sit there and remember what a paradise the place was in its day and today as well. To contemplate the conflict and it's aftermath. To meditate on the history that went down there while enjoying the cool breezes off the bay over a couple of cold San Migels while watching the sunset and seeing the thunderstorms gathering over Mt Mariveles. It is not difficult to see those storms and think of the same storms of steel and hot lead rained down by the empire of Japan. Seeing the flashes of lightning, it does not take a lot of imagination to think of those same flashes being artillery some 72 years distant, and wonder what it would be like to be the recipient of that fire, and say a prayer for those who were.
I asked my wife, and she remembers it being 150 pesos as well, maybe you were thinking 300 for two?
The menu was varied if not a mystery in some respects. One example was 'Southwest Chicken' which just begged the question, southwest where? Southwest Luzon? southwest America? Southwest Georgia? I had to order it and found it unremarkable but I do not expect the restaurant on Corregidor to be very familiar with Fried Chicken American style. The food was good and plentiful but not 5 star by any stretch. But then again, you do not go to a place like that for the 5 star amenities and food. You go there to see history, and you can never be disappointed in that respect.
Yes, all the flags were flying, at least all flag poles had a flag on it.
I don't remember any water running down the side wall, there could have been, I just don't remember, and I usually notice things like that so maybe it has been fixed.
And I don't mind answering any of your questions, Corregidor being one of my favorite topics
Paalam
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 14, 2014 0:18:24 GMT 8
Hey Okla and Phantom
I have a short video of my ride and would be glad to post it so you can see it. However, I will need help with it since when it come to technology, I am barely one level above an Amish elder during a power failure. It catches a glimpse of the starting point as I swung around so you can see that it is hidden from view if you are at the hotel.
Don't mind giving updates at all. The hotel staff were the ones who put us on the ride. If I remember correctly it was only 150 pesos I don't remember signing any paperwork, but this was over a year ago, may have, just don't remember. Yes, there is a catcher at the other end to keep you safe and help you get unbuckled. Don't remember seeing ANY 4 wheelers or kayaks near the end of the line. I seem to remember them somewhere on the island on my first visit 1/11, but don't remember where. Condition of equipment was very good. As you will see from the video it is a double cable system for safety.
Nice to know people care and participate in this site
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 13, 2014 1:13:23 GMT 8
Hello Fots2
Thanks so much for sending the videos, they were TOO COOL! It was great to see the footage of where I was walking on that most sacred of soil.
Where can I find all of your other videos and pictures? Would love to get lost in them for hours.
Do you go to Corregidor regularly? Would love to team up on some future trip
Thanks again
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Post by beirutvet on Jul 12, 2014 5:50:40 GMT 8
Hey fots2, I saw that you had one time posted videos on this thread from your trip to the top of Malinta hill, but I think they are gone or never got on the site. I would love to see them as I had also gone to the top of Malinta hill. Any suggestions on how I can see them?
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