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Post by JohnEakin on Jan 30, 2011 0:48:25 GMT 8
Did work on IDing the unknowns pretty much slow to a snail's pace after the late '40s? About 1950 they brought in the civilian anthropologist who had supervised the recoveries in Europe. She told them it was FUBAR. (I'm sure Okla will know that one <G>) They shut down the recovery and identification programs and classified the records. By 1951 it was all over. Wrapped the guys in shelter halfs and planted them at Ft McKindley as unknowns. The records have now been declassified due to age and it ain't a pretty picture. DoD is still doing what they can to prevent wholesale disclosure of the documents.
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Post by okla on Jan 30, 2011 3:44:56 GMT 8
Hey John....If the complete, true account of the handling/identification/recovery of military remains was known it would probably be mind boggling. Mishandling was probably commonplace world wide, especially right after VE and VJ Days. I have a very close friend whose brother, a gunner in an 8th AF B-17, whose body/remains were returned for burial in the local cemetery of his hometown. The next of kin have always questioned whether their relative was actually the person in the coffin. According to aircrew of planes flying in close proximity to the "lost" crew, this Flying Fortress exploded in a ball of fire (probably the whole bomb load went when flak entered the open bomb bay) with pieces of the aircraft scattering all over the sky above Northern Germany. I can see where the next of kin would have serious reservations about just what might be enclosed in the casket. Regardless, they make their pilgrimages to the grave site each appropriate date. A few of the bereaved even question if their is ANYTHING in the coffin. I would think this situation would be tough to handle. Over the years the survivors (now mostly dead themselves) accepted the whole senario and have moved on with their lives. Kinda sad, methinks, having these doubts. Postscript...FUBAR, I am very familiar with.
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Post by JohnEakin on Feb 1, 2011 9:56:05 GMT 8
Good point, Okla. There's no doubt in my mind that some of the identifications that were made were bad. But I look at it as at least they tried to get them home and and they did give the family a sense of closure and a grave to pay homage at.
The ones I'm upset about are the remains that were not identified because incompetence and disorganization made it to much trouble to get the job done. Then the Army deliberately misinformed the families that there were no remains when they knew that to be untrue. I know from my families' experience that the not knowing was nearly as difficult for the parents as the loss itself.
The other day I was going through the archives of the Japanese-POW list server and found a survey which asked Bataan/Corregidor survivors what kept them going. Most just said they were to stubborn to die and give the Japanese the satisfaction. But quite a number said they just didn't want to die and be buried in a foreign land. I think all of us who have served overseas can appreciate that. I served in some really nice places and some that really sucked and I wouldn't want to be buried anywhere but the USA.
These guys gave their all to their country. They at least deserve is to have their name on their headstone.
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Post by fots2 on Mar 16, 2011 21:59:55 GMT 8
Hi okla, Karl and I were out on the tail yesterday and found some more of the cemeteries for you. Here are two tomb stones, I’ll post a more detailed update later. This first one is in Tagalog. The lettering a faded but pouring some drinking water on it helped to see it better. It is decorated with a cross, wreath and flowers. S.L.N. TRINIDAD REYES USA MAYO 23, 1903 (May 23, 1903) MAYO 7, 1938 (May 7, 1938) ALAALA NG IYONG (In Memory of You) ASAWA ? M.G.A ANAK (Husband ? M.G.A. Anak) Does anyone know what the letters “S.L.N” would mean? Next, here is the only intact cross I have seen that remains standing. MARIANO MADAMBA BORN SEPT. 6 1929 – DIED NOV.24 1934 (the little guy was only 5 years old) So far I have never found any military tomb stones (excluding the three lying in James Ravine). Today we came across a three entrance Japanese tunnel. It is the usual rat hole. Once inside the center entrance, one connecting tunnel is only 2 ½ ft wide by 2 ½ ft high. The other connecting tunnel of the same size is about 90% complete. The final couple feet or so is just 8” x 6” hole but you can see through it to the third entrance. I had some good luck later in the day too. On the way back to Bottomside we made a detour. I came across a gun position that neither Karl nor I knew about. It is not even shown on the 1941 Emergency Defense Map. Of all places it is on a steep part of Malinta Hill. On the downhill side it has a concrete and rock embankment. The actual gun position consists of a flat concrete platform on the bottom with a smaller circular platform on top for positioning the gun. It looks exactly like the 75mm gun positions but without the roof. This position is not even shown on the 1941 Emergency Defence map. We are heading west of the Topside Parade Ground tomorrow. There is always something new to see on Corregidor.
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Post by okla on Mar 17, 2011 0:17:55 GMT 8
Hey Fots....Thanks for the new "min-fix". Always good stuff. I am wondering if the S.L.M. might be an abbreviation for a Latin religious phrase. I am Catholic, and should probably be bit more knowledgeable on these type matters, but I am in the dark here. I am also wondering if these stones (at least that of the child) are "dependent" personnel of Scout Troopers serving on Corregidor. I, also, betcha that there are numerous defensive fortification areas still to be found in your explorations that are not shown on the 1941 Defensive Map. I can envision the men working like fiends, especially after the surrender on Bataan, in hopes of improving their chances when the "landings" came. I couldn't help but notice that the date of death shown on the Reyes-Usa tombstone was almost 4 years to the day prior to Corregidor's fall. Kinda ironic, methinks. One last thing....when you and Karl are up on the Parage Ground, listen intently and I betcha you can hear the 59th Regimental Band knocking out a bit of martial music and a few "eyes right" ringing out. I, sometimes question my over active imagination and it is fired up this morning, at least wife say as much. Cheers.
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Post by makoy on Mar 17, 2011 14:03:19 GMT 8
S.L.N. TRINIDAD REYES USA MAYO 23, 1903 (May 23, 1903) MAYO 7, 1938 (May 7, 1938) ALAALA NG IYONG (In Memory of You) ASAWA ? M.G.A ANAK (Husband ? M.G.A. Anak) Does anyone know what the letters “S.L.N” would mean? Suma Langit Nawa (SLN) - in Filipino as used in a sentence: Suma langit nawa ang kanyang kaluluwa. May his/her soul rest in peace.
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Post by makoy on Mar 17, 2011 14:09:33 GMT 8
ASAWA ? M.G.A ANAK (Husband ? M.G.A. Anak) Husband and children in ? > at (and)
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Post by okla on Mar 17, 2011 20:41:55 GMT 8
Hey Makay....Many thanks for helping us out on the tombstone lettering. I learn something, each and every day, on this site. Cheers.
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Post by fots2 on Mar 19, 2011 0:07:26 GMT 8
Wow makoy, that is very good information. Salamat po for your help with this.
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Post by fots2 on Apr 10, 2011 19:27:40 GMT 8
In late January, Phantom, Jim Moffett and I were hiking back to Kindley Field after looking at one of Lt. Lawrence’s gun positions. Keeping near the south side cliff we came upon a neck high grassy area. Walking was not too difficult so we continued through the grass toward the tree line straight ahead. Within a minute or so we came upon a rectangular concrete box in the ground that had the bottom broken out of it. A deeper hole had been dug inside it about 12 feet deep. It was nearly invisible in the deep grass. At the time, we guessed that the grassy area was part of the nearby old road. This box may have been for ammo storage as it looked similar to another buried box further out on the tail of the island. We had no idea what the deeper unlined hole was for. After clearing away some of the grass, here is the rectangular box in the ground. In March Karl and I were headed for the tail and we passed by here again. This time when we got to the grassy area it was very different. A very recent fire had burned the thick grasses and the ground is almost bare. Talk about great visibility. The burned grassy area. Another view of it. Kicking away burned grass often uncovers concrete. One point became obvious immediately. This was not an old road but part of a cemetery. Maps give no indication of how large the most eastern cemetery is turning out to be. We have also found tombstones east of the concrete wall/rifle butt. For the first time I can see that the burial sites are not random as I thought. There are the remains of many sites here and I see numerous small rectangular concrete blocks in the ground, each has a number. This cemetery was laid out logically and recorded. Small numbered concrete blocks. Broken concrete tombstones lie around in places but some are still intact. One complete cross still stands. A block labeled #76 stands in front of it. Close-up of the cross. A few areas look to have been dug up but not recently. Other tombstones we had not seen before were also found on this trip. Now back to the concrete box in the ground. It is very visible now and here is another little surprise. The box is actually a burial site that has had the ornamental concrete cover flipped over and cast aside. The concrete burial site with the upside down cover lying nearby. Looking down into the concrete box. Note the bottom and right-hand side have been broken away. A neatly dug hole below the box is about 12 feet deep. Why and by whom? Another little mystery on this island. Here is a photo of a Cemetery that is labeled as being on Corregidor Island in 1941. I cannot say exactly where it is located but the trees abruptly disappear in the background. The burned patch is at the edge of the southern cliff and looks the same. I wonder if where I was standing in a burned cemetery looked like this 70 years ago. (I am not sure where this photo came from but I think Phantom had something to do with it). Standing on the edge of the burned area you now have a good view towards Caballo Island. The cemetery is nearly 100 feet above the beach. Every time I walk this island I find something new. Corregidor Island will never give up all her secrets so there are plenty more things to stumble over yet.
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