Post by wwalker on May 6, 2012 12:58:12 GMT 8
Hello,
Thanks for the info Fots. It seems that if there were submarines in the Bay that day, the Army mines would have had to have been on safe. But after digging through some submarine logs today, I cannot find anything YET that mentions them being in Manila Bay during that 24 hour time period. The only thing that I found of any interest is this:
USS Canopus War Diary
"16 December 1941
0010 Seadragon stood out for southern waters, emergency repairs completed"
"17 December 1941
1730 Sailfish came alongside for fuel, water, stores, etc. SS Corregidor reported lost with considerable loss of life due to striking mine off Corregidor"
So here we see that there were a couple of submarines, the Seadragon & Sailfish, that were in the bay during that time period. These are the only two that I've found record of so far. I was able to find out that there was quite alot of submarine activity in Manila Bay in the days that followed the sinking of the SS Corregidor. I will do more in-depth on this soon.
I recently received "Fighting for MacArthur" by John Gordon back from a friend that I let borrow. I read his explanation of events again, and his in-depth research produces probably the most truthful, evidence based explanation of what happened. He concludes his 3 page explanation with "Therefore, it appears that a combination of mistakes by the ship's owners, captain, and the US military resulted in the tragedy." Interestingly, he also stated that there were 150 Philippine Army soldiers on the SS Corregidor, and seven Americans. There was also a substantial amount of weaponry on board being sent to the Southern Philippine forces that was lost in the sinking.
Gordon's book appears to have been written from careful studying of these Naval Records, and of course the war diary of the 4th Marines. And also these were certainly not his only sources of information in the book.
Okla, this is a twisty topic. It's one of those topics that requires a lot of research and study before getting to the true facts. I have found that many events written of certain events by veterans during and after the war were based off of what was told to them. This is where the facts get alittle shaky, and sometimes there's truth to these too. However, anytime I have read recollections from those that were in the campaign, that actually witnessed an event (or took part in), those are usually the facts (or very close), almost 100% of the time. So it is one thing to have heard about something happening, and another to have actually watched or took part in these historical happenings. It's all about eye-witness' and participants.
I am going to continue digging and sifting, if I come across anything more that will add to this story I will post it. Thanks for the great discussion. This forum is great, with great people.
WW
PS: I am also very curious as to if any of the estimated 260 survivors of this disaster are still living. Its definitely not impossible (matter of fact I think it could be likely), as many of the people on board were said to have been college students, and would have been 16-22 years old at the time, and there were also children on board.
Thanks for the info Fots. It seems that if there were submarines in the Bay that day, the Army mines would have had to have been on safe. But after digging through some submarine logs today, I cannot find anything YET that mentions them being in Manila Bay during that 24 hour time period. The only thing that I found of any interest is this:
USS Canopus War Diary
"16 December 1941
0010 Seadragon stood out for southern waters, emergency repairs completed"
"17 December 1941
1730 Sailfish came alongside for fuel, water, stores, etc. SS Corregidor reported lost with considerable loss of life due to striking mine off Corregidor"
So here we see that there were a couple of submarines, the Seadragon & Sailfish, that were in the bay during that time period. These are the only two that I've found record of so far. I was able to find out that there was quite alot of submarine activity in Manila Bay in the days that followed the sinking of the SS Corregidor. I will do more in-depth on this soon.
I recently received "Fighting for MacArthur" by John Gordon back from a friend that I let borrow. I read his explanation of events again, and his in-depth research produces probably the most truthful, evidence based explanation of what happened. He concludes his 3 page explanation with "Therefore, it appears that a combination of mistakes by the ship's owners, captain, and the US military resulted in the tragedy." Interestingly, he also stated that there were 150 Philippine Army soldiers on the SS Corregidor, and seven Americans. There was also a substantial amount of weaponry on board being sent to the Southern Philippine forces that was lost in the sinking.
Gordon's book appears to have been written from careful studying of these Naval Records, and of course the war diary of the 4th Marines. And also these were certainly not his only sources of information in the book.
Okla, this is a twisty topic. It's one of those topics that requires a lot of research and study before getting to the true facts. I have found that many events written of certain events by veterans during and after the war were based off of what was told to them. This is where the facts get alittle shaky, and sometimes there's truth to these too. However, anytime I have read recollections from those that were in the campaign, that actually witnessed an event (or took part in), those are usually the facts (or very close), almost 100% of the time. So it is one thing to have heard about something happening, and another to have actually watched or took part in these historical happenings. It's all about eye-witness' and participants.
I am going to continue digging and sifting, if I come across anything more that will add to this story I will post it. Thanks for the great discussion. This forum is great, with great people.
WW
PS: I am also very curious as to if any of the estimated 260 survivors of this disaster are still living. Its definitely not impossible (matter of fact I think it could be likely), as many of the people on board were said to have been college students, and would have been 16-22 years old at the time, and there were also children on board.