Battle of the Pockets

[okla]

Hey Conrad...You mention that Mister Alejandro said there was/is the remains of a tank further south of the area where you were prowling. That rang a bell way back in my failing memory about a few tanks belonging to one of those US Tank Units being deployed in the Pockets fighting. Their use was limited due to the fact that those light Stuarts tended to get "hung up, high center" on tree stumps, created by artillery shell fire, protruding from the underbrush. I wonder if this contraption is a remnant of one of those tanks. They were withdrawn from any more attempts and the fighting was left to "grunts" to dislodge the Japanese, all who were either killed or escaped back north to their own lines. I wish I could remember where I read about the failed use, in this particular case, of our armor.

[cbuehler]

Okla,
We have of course no idea as to what this "Tank" that Alejandro mentioned really is or its specific location. He seemed to indicate that it was considerably further south than the location of the Pockets. Perhaps if Karl gets back there, he can inquire further. As can be seen, the rolling country side would be excellent tank country nowadays!

CB

[Karl Welteke]

Here is my find, 2 pictures, at the Upper Pocket from this visit on the 23rd Feb. 2013 with Conrad Buehler. I let the experts figure what these things are:


Karl's Find!


Karl's Find, close-up

[cbuehler]

Hey Karl,
Again from left to right: US .30 cal M1 bullet, ditto, Japanese 7.7 MG bullet, unsure bullet tip, Japanese 7.7 MG case, appears to be another 7.7 MG bullet and lastly another .30 cal M1 bullet.
I dont recall seeing those pottery shards! Appear to be from plates?

CB

[Karl Welteke]

Battle of the Pockets, 2nd Time, 2013-03-14

Tried to explore the Battlefield in a more comprehensive way. I did and also went up further on Trail #7.

I believe I got a good picture of the geography from this Battle Field now and I tried to show it on the marked up maps I provided. The map from the Fall Of the Philippines was absolutely essential for this endeavor. My GPS device and Google Earth are of very great help in recording where I actually walked. The pictures I took will help in the future to remember what I have seen.

If anyone would like the KMZ file of this walk, contact me and I will send it by email!

One problem is that the people here don’t know the names of the rivers on the Fall of the Philippines map of this battle. Mr. Alejandre just barely remembers that he heard the name Camilew River sometime in the past but didn’t know which one or where it is. That map jives but in the field the scene does look so different!!!!

The exact location of the Big Pocket or the Little Pocket I could not identify but I indicated on the map where they must be. I didn’t find any artifacts. The whole ridge areas are now short grass, kept really short by cattle which is kept on these slopes in a big way. So one can see the ground and would be able to spot any artifacts if they are laying loosely on top of the ground.
Walking thru the river valleys or river beds, may be very difficult at places because of growth at some places and no trails there.
However I walked across the Field of Mr. Alejandre again, both ways, going and coming back. Each way about 5 minutes and I found about 9 items in this short time. This area, I’m sure, is the Upper Pocket battle field.




Here are some sample pictures, the numbers are only there to help me find them:


350 The all important Battle of the Pockets map from the Fall of the Philippines publication. It is essential to understand and identify the battle field.


351 The GE image, on which I marked the river names from the US Army Fall of the Philippine publication


352 On this image I marked in the areas of the three battles where I think they are based on the Fall of the Philippines map and the actual layout of the terrain.


353 This map is an example of the maps I provided in my album to show where I shot rounds of pictures from certain points as indicated on this map.


354 This is one of the early images of the walk, it is the Camilew River from the north. It is wide here I crossed it back to here on my return march.


355 I just had to continue on trail #7 and was rewarded with this type of view.


356 Trail # 7 actual started going down slowly to cross the Tiis River but I seen that higher road cut ahead on my left. I had to find out what is in the other side.


357 Again I was rewarded with this great view of the Pantingan River. Also, left we still can see that chicken place where I started out.


358 Looking in the other direction and we see the Pantingan river draining the Mariveles volcanic crater.


359 I’m already down a lot and I’m on the ridge plateau between the Tiis and Camilew Rivers. Remember image 354 above the rice fields in the river Camilew? Well, that’s where I’m now and will cross the river here.


360 After I walked down the ridge plateau between the Camilew and Tuol Rivers a bit and only then did I get aware of and learn where the Cotar River is. It is shorter than indicated but now the battle field picture is complete. Indeed it is between the Tuol and Camilew rivers.


361 A little higher and up-river from the last image, I crossed the Cotar River here. Except for walking up on this side, it was an easy river crossing for me. I noticed some old trees here.


362 My next goal was to cross the Tuol River here but I didn’t find any trail going down from this side and had to go up-ridge some distance before I could cross and it was difficult to boot.


363 Before I left to find a trail to cross I had a good look at he wide mouth of the Tuol River.


364 On my way back to the car I walked across Mr. Alejandre’s field again which we are sure was part of the Upper Pocket battle field. And again I found artifacts, all together from the two 5 minute walks each I got 8 or 9 pieces.

Here the walk data and a picture of elevation involved:

Battle of the Pockets, 2nd time

Thu, 2013 Mar 14 7:37
Activity Type: Casual Walking
Event Type: Special Event

By myself went to Trail 7 in order to find the Main Pocket and the Little Pocket. I'm sure I walked over the battle fields but was unable to be sure. I certainly know more about the battle field geography now.

Distance: 18.18 km
Time: 7:29:32
Avg Pace: 24:44 min/km
Avg Speed: 2.4 km/h
Elevation Gain: 521 m


Timing
Time: 7:29:32
Moving Time: 5:20:17
Elapsed Time: 7:29:32


Elevation
Elevation Gain: 521 m
Elevation Loss: 521 m
Min Elevation: 132 m
Max Elevation: 405 m

[okla]

Hey Karl...Thanks again for this excellent, follow up tour of the "Pockets" battle area. It is difficult to imagine the region as it was back in the early months of 1942, especially Mister Alehandro's "pasture" region. If memory serves the "Big Pocket" site was the most difficult terrain of the three Japanese positions. It was a "dream" defensive position for the intruders after they penetrated the Fil/American positions. John Toland's Book, "But Not in Shame" presents a pretty good rendition of these dirty little fights. Of course, "The Fall of the Philippines" is the best description of these actions, in my humble. So, I once again, want to express my gratitude to you (and Conrad) for bringing the whole business to life with the excellent photographs and Google maps. This whole "Pockets" fighting has been neglected with only the monument on the Bagac Road denoting that a very, nasty, ferocious action took place in these scenic acres once upon a time. Thanks again for this most extensive pictoral record of the "Pockets" Battlefields.. Postscript....I am still hoping that you stumble upon the "tank or half track" that Mister Alejandro spoke of. If it does exist, surely some remnants are still there. I can't imagine scrappers hauling that entire relic or its' remains out to the cross peninsula road and off to some junkyard and the cutting torches. Cheers.

[cbuehler]

Fantastic Karl! You were able to finish what we had begun a few weeks ago. I would venture to say that you are now the world's most knowledgeable person on the location of the Pockets today. This rediscovery of the area is likely the most comprehensive study made since the war. Only the few locals would be more familiar with the area, albeit unaware of its history. You certainly went considerably further than we got before turning back. It looks like the Big Pocket area was indeed somewhat further south of the main road than the period maps of ww2 would seem to indicate.
Perhaps the next suggestion I could make is to try for the location of the massacre at the Pantingan river. It may be more accessible from this way along trail 7?
Also, as Okla mentioned, I myself would like to follow up more on that "tank" that Alejandro and his friend made mention of, although sometimes one cant be sure of what they are talking of or even it it still exists.

CB

PS, It looks like a made a relic collector out of you...

[Bob Hudson]

Okla,

I wouldn't put anything past a Filipino when it comes to scrap metal recycling. I watched a Filipino pound on an old impact wrench for 20 minutes with a sledge hammer and something that looked like a thick bolo knife,reducing it to little pieces. Something for which he will maybe get a few pesos for. If there was a tank out there somewhere, Filipino ingenuity would find a way to reduce it to manageable pieces for easy transportation.

[okla]

Hey Bob....I will yield to your first hand and on site experience and knowledge of how those scrappers operate. As the old saying goes, "necessity is the mother of invention". If that old relic did exist, maybe some of the locals rounded up a certain number of Carabao, after "working" it down to a manageable size and dragged their "prize" to a location where they could reap a small profit. It would be kinda interesting for one of you local guys to actually re-discover this old wreck, though. Reminds me about a guy I served with after returning from my little hitch in Korea. This fellow had just returned from a tour in Germany. He told of being in a group of GIs finding a Tiger tank sitting in a German farm barn. It had been there since 1945. The German farmer was afraid to report it to the US Occupation people and it had just remained in his barn till around 1954. My friend said that they didn't tell any higher ups, other than their First Sergeant. I wonder if that monster is still sitting in that barn??? Now what do you think those Filipino scrappers could have done with one of those Tigers? It would have been a bonanza for them.

[okla]

Hey Karl....I have been going over your latest photos, once again, and have to remark about how loosely the word "rivers" is used by the map makers, in describing some of those "streams" in the "Pockets" areas. Those little things are hardly more than ditches or gulleys in many places. That shot of the Tuol River crossing with the cement culvert lying there to aid in crossing is a great example. It would appear that a grown man could just step across the "river". Just sayin". Again, thank you for posting this great stuff. Cheers.