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Post by EXO on Jul 11, 2008 19:46:21 GMT 8
FOR DISCUSSION: Martyn Keen (of Perth, Australia) has provided a small number of members with Version 1.0 of his digital capture of the 1921 Corregidor Map. This is a reduced version of it. Members who have been in receipt of it are invited to proof it closely and render any assistance and comments to Martyn via this posting. exo
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Post by fots2 on Jul 12, 2008 4:35:30 GMT 8
Hello Martyn, Here are a few comments for you. Some are just picky things but I get the impression you are a perfectionist. This map is impressive and I can't wait to see your final detailed versions of both the 1921 and 1935 maps. Great work. There are structures not shown such as the 155mm gun shelters on each side of Battery Hanna. Since your map is very detailed I assume it is because they did not exist in 1921. Honestly I do not know what was added after 1921 so I may not be able to help you very much. Building #105 (Car station) on the map. It is shown as being downhill or to the right of the bridge. There is a large building uphill to the left of the bridge. It is only about 10 or 20m from the bridge. Is this the same building? Building #103 (Gasoline Storage) on the map. What about the building on the opposite side of the rail line (today's road)? On another map it was labeled as 'Plotting Room - Geary'. Would it not have been there in 1921 if the battery was already there? Battery Way: the rail line came right into the battery and there are a few buildings behind the four mortars. SYMBOLS (1) 5th line down there is no space between 'station' and 'of''. (2) last line: I assume S.W.B refers to switch board. Since this is two words and not three you may want to try something different. (3) there is no circle with an 'X' through it symbol. (Battery Hanna and Cushing symbols) ABBREVIATIONS 1st line. should it be A.A. instead of A.a. (perhaps not) LEGEND #169 'for', not 'fore' LEGEND #104 is missing. I believe that was 'Storehouse Medical & Art. Engineer'. I do not know what Art. Engineer is. (building #74) I hope this helps. I look forward to testing your maps 'on the ground'. Have a good day. John www.pbase.com/fots2/image/95363383www.pbase.com/fots2/image/94557640www.pbase.com/fots2/image/94557637www.pbase.com/fots2/image/94557621couldn't resist this pic taken in the back yard yesterday. It is almost at the end of strawberry season here. www.pbase.com/fots2/image/100021529
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Post by mgk1951 on Jul 12, 2008 22:59:26 GMT 8
Hi John
Thank you for the rapid review and comments on the digital 1921 Corregidor map. I appreciate the set of extra eyes going over what I had digitised. It is difficult to finalise a map with this much detail without some extra help.
I'll explain a little bit about the production of this map. The map that was digitised to produce the product you now have before you is the set of 1921 Corregidor maps - being a general map and eight maps numbered D1 - D8.
I have attempted to reproduce these maps, as a single sheet, as faithfully as possible. I've only moved two battery names to show battery instillations that were hidden underneath. At the moment I have two of the Point names (Morrison and Battery) moved because they are interferring with the filled background shape of the island.
I have made two corrections to errors in the original drafting. One was a contour interval that became a road on one sheet. On the adjoining sheet the road continued as a contour, which is what it was - a contour.
I have used the eight original legends and combined into a single legend. The list of batteries is as notated on the eight sheets and the general sheet. I have only added a small list of abbreviations that expand the legend and symbols. The latter are from Symbols and Abbreviations - 1921.
Producing this map has helped me become more familiar with the island as I have only visited Corregidor on three occasions. I'll be using this map and the 1935 map on my next visit.
Now to your comments. 1. I had missed building 104 when typing the legend. You are correct in that it is 'Storehouse Medical & Art. Engineer' on the 1921 map. On the 1935 map it is numbered 74. 2. Yes, Battery Way has rail into the battery, but this is not drawn into the battery itself on either the 1921, 1935 nor 1936 maps. Why? 3. There is a Plotting Room; Stations Primary and Secondary Fire Command; Primary Station of a Battery; and Meteorological Station 200 metres west of Battery Way. These appear to be the first battery command buildings for Way and Geary. They are marked as such on the 1935 map, at which time Geary has a plotting room marked north east of the battery. On the 1935 map, Way still has no Plotting room marked. 4. There are some additional buildings near 105 Car Station, which were possibly not present at the time the 1921 map being prepared. 5. I've fixed (immediately) the missing spaces and the spelling mistake in the legend. Well spotted. I've been over the legend 5 times and missed the errors. 6. The A-A.a. abbreviation for Anti-Aircraft is displayed on both the 1921 and 1935 maps. It is peculiar, but I have retained it. 7. The S.W.B. abbreviation is from 1921 Symbols and Abbreviations. The symbol is placed south of the eastern end of the Mile Long Barracks, but is not contained in the legend. The symbol is only fully explained in FM 4-155 Reference Data 1940. In this reference it is described as S.W. Room. I'm not too sure if S.W.B. or S.W. Room is correct for 1921? S.W.B. may be a mistake. 8. The 155mm Gun Shelters do appear on the 1935 map, but not on the 1921. 9. Symbol at Batteries Hanna and Cushing does not appear on any legend or list of symbols. To maintain the integrity of the map, I have not added it to the legend.
Anyway, thank you again for such a quick response to the call for review of this map. I really enjoyed reading your comments and enjoyed working through them on the new map. I learned a bit more about Corregidor tonight.
Kindest regards
Martyn
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Post by fots2 on Jul 13, 2008 6:53:08 GMT 8
Hi Martyn
You are welcome. I understand your responses and I am sure you have a time consuming task. If I notice anything else I’ll let you know. I can see your maps being of great value to those of us who like to tramp over the island.
On a related topic, one thing I am doing now is gathering information on GPS receivers. That is one toy I would love to have. Do you know anything about these units?
I was wondering if it would be possible to upload your final map to a GPS and use it for navigation to more difficult places. Since the map is already digital, maybe it could be converted to a compatible format. Imagine recording waypoints for things such as difficult to access tunnel entrances etc and then seeing the exact location on your map.
Anyway, good luck with the maps. Maybe someday I will see you on Corregidor. Paul is buying the beer... ;D
John
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Post by mgk1951 on Jul 14, 2008 17:48:24 GMT 8
Hi John The digital base map for the newly captured 1921 Corregidor map is georeferenced, therefore for every structure marked on the new map, I can give its Latitude and Longitude. However, I need to confirm that I have the map referenced correctly - I'll be doing this on Corregidor at the beginning of next year, January 2009. I am using a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx, which can determine and average positions to within +/- 4 metres. Not too bad for a hand held GPS. However, we have the advantage of the digitally captured map and will be able to apply adjustments/corrections to increase the accuracy of the future Map Version 2. To put it is perspective, lines on the new map, at viewing scale, are about 2 metres wide. So if we could get to within 2 metres...... The Garmin GPSmap 60CSx is an explorer/navigator/bushman type of GPS. Its has no frills, but is water resistant (from rain) and shock proof. Garmin use a company developed mapping system for their GPS. It is called MapSource. This program is loadable onto your computer and you can add waypoints, say from the digital 1921 map, and even draw simple road layouts. This can be saved as a file and loaded onto the memory card in your GPS. You can then navigate to anywhere on Corregidor you want. So your wish is being worked upon. There is a GPS map available for the Philippines. It is Garmin compatible and is available from www.freewebs.com/phroadguide/index.htm. It includes an excellent road map for Manila. Kindest regards Martyn
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Post by fots2 on Jul 14, 2008 21:06:38 GMT 8
Hi Martyn;
Thank-you for the information.
That is great news about your map being usable with a GPS someday. I do have MapSource loaded on my laptop now including the Philippines map. I just need some more time to learn how to use it. I have not purchased a GPS receiver yet.
Good luck with your project.
John
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Post by mgk1951 on Jul 21, 2008 22:27:31 GMT 8
Hi Everyone
Marked on Malinta Hill on the original 1921 Corregidor map is a station FIV, which would be a Station, Fire Command. The full name of a FIII is Supplementary Station, Fire Command, however I can find no full name/description for the FIV. There are a number of FIII Stations on Corregidor, but only the single FIV.
On the 1935 Corregidor map, the same Malinta Hill station is marked as GIV being a Gun Group Command Post. Again, the GIII would indicate a supplementary post, however I can find no name/description for the GIV.
Each station or post is numbered in sub-script from right to left looking to the west of Corregidor. I undestand the identification system was changed by 1940. Originally I thought the FIV was a drawing error, but to have it reoccur on the 1935 map as GIV is not a coincidence.
Does anyone know what the full name of F and/or GIV is?
Thanks
Martyn
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Post by Micah Collins on Nov 3, 2008 5:26:28 GMT 8
Hello Martyn, I just found this forum and am quite interested in all this. I grew up in the Philippines and spent my four years highschool in manila so i made it out to corregidor more times than I can count! I'm curious to see how that new map will work out with the Garmin. From what i read you were just combining 1921 map with a 1935 was it? And not really adding or subtracting anything. I don't know either of those maps but they don't happen to have tunnel and cave locations on them do they? Well when you get it done i'd be pretty interested in looking it over! I can't really open the map any bigger than what I see on the forum. Well take care! Micah
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Post by Micah Collins on Nov 3, 2008 5:34:30 GMT 8
Hey John, I just clicked one of the links to your Corregidor pictures and they are great!! I've been out there many times and knew three quarters of the tunnels, caves, and other places that you posted but man there were some places that i'd never heard of! And i was surprised to see battery monja pix there! That's not the easiest cave to get too! It sure would be nice to have all the caves and tunnels you know about pinpointed on a map! Im in college now so I won't be going back out there for a while but someday I know I will be! Thanks again for the trip back to memory lane with those pictures! Micah
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Post by fots2 on Nov 3, 2008 10:24:44 GMT 8
Hi Micah, You have a very good idea about putting the tunnel locations on the maps. A few tunnels are already shown on the detailed map but in at least one instance, it is not too accurate. The 1935 map is very detailed so I expect Martyn will have to balance fine detail with too much clutter. Maybe something as simple as a marker at a tunnel location would suffice. The markers could be listed on a new legend. I intend to use my GPS to record the location of all the tunnel entrances that I know of. I think I will even create a rough map of each of them. There are still tunnels which I have not been to yet. I now know the location of most of them so I intent to explore more when I return to Corregidor in a couple months. You are correct, Battery Monja required some effort to get to but those are the places most fun to visit. The day tour crowd has no idea where we can go to explore. I am not sure where you saw my photos but if you want to see the labels, go to www.pbase.com/fots2/corregidorAt least four of the members here live in the Philippines and a few others make regular visits to Corregidor to explore. Since you are already a ‘tunnel rat’ like some of us you might be interested to join us sometime in the future. Good luck with your studies. John
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