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Post by okla on Jun 14, 2009 0:17:50 GMT 8
hey mgk....again, great stuff. i am in the greatest situation possible. i just throw a smidgen out there and always one of you gurus takes it and presents me with the whole, complete, and accurate story. beats going to the library. thanks so much to you and the others. As for the midget subs.... they didnt fare too well "down under" anymore than they did at pearl harbor. would you say that their attrition rate was a bit high? i did see a piece, again on the history channel, where some group is trying to prove that a midget fired at battleship row and possibly hit either the USS oklahoma or west virginia. i am sure you have seen the photo taken from a japanese plane that depicts what these folks claim is a midget sub lined up in the body of water across the pearl harbor channel from the moored dreadnaughts on "the row". we all know, of course, about one midget being sunk by the destroyer monaghan (sp???) in pearl. was this "phantom" sub, possibly shown in the pic, the same one that the navy destroyer rammed??? or was it another midget or is the object in the aerial photo a torpedo wake, a small boat, or just some other disturbance in the water??? whatever, the japanese midgets took a beating. i hope, before i pass on to my reward, small as it will be, that the definite fate of the fifth pearl harbor midget is solved. there are some logical explanations out there, but none settles it satisfactorily.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 11:32:45 GMT 8
Thanks for taking the time to post that information. It is very helpful and I am beginning to get a clear indication of what my uncle and his crew did. In a related matter, my uncle was posthumously (in 1946) awarded a Silver Star for his actions during the battle of Corregidor (1942). I have the citation and will post it as soon as I figure out how to post a pdf. My question: since my uncle's brave acts occurred on the day of surrender, how were these acts recorded and by whom? I would assume that his commanding officers were also captured and the Japanese would not allow them to carry a notebook of citations with them through 3 years of confinement in POW camps until the story of my uncle's bravery could be transmitted to the US after the war. The citation is somewhat detailed, so someone must have either taken notes or had a vivid memory of what he did.
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Post by mgk1951 on Jun 14, 2009 15:23:31 GMT 8
A better image depicting crew positions for the M3 3inch AA Gun. Taken from the 1940 manual.
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Post by okla on Jun 14, 2009 22:54:53 GMT 8
hey matt...in response to your question about how the citation and award for your uncle came about under the trying circumstances of the fall of corregidor/POW situation,etc., i posted this little anecdote previously (cant remember when), but i will throw it out there again for you. i stood an awards and decorations parade for a bataan death march survivor back in 1952 while in the USAF. this award (the bronze star) was for bravery during the fighting on the abucay line in january 1942. after the liberation of the POWs and the return to the US the paperwork went in on said sergeant and after several years it finally caught up with the man and he was given his decoration. some of the records in these type situations, as i understand it, were hidden and recovered after the war. some were compiled from memory while the participants were confined in the POW pens and some were assembled from memory after some time had expired subsequent to the end of the war. i imagine, in some instances, that the actual information/supporting documents (if existing)/sworn statements,etc werent even submitted until much time (maybe years even) had passed. i would also assume that in some instances that the paper work was even lost in the shuffle or set aside in lieu of more pressing matters. for example, i myself, was recommended for the commendation medal in korea in 1953. i never heard anything more about it, whether it was awarded or denied and things certainly were not chaotic at the time it was submitted. i was discharged in 1955 and never thought anything more about it. just another example of what can happen when the paper shuffling commences. i think its great that you are getting some excellent results in your research on your uncle. he seems to certainly be a relative to be proud of.
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Post by EXO on Jun 15, 2009 6:20:18 GMT 8
Matt, On our site, specifically within the Coast Artillery section, we have been able to publish a number of the Battery Histories of those who took part in the siege and surrender of Fortress Corregidor. For example, there's B/60th by Capt. Huff, C/60th by Capt. Ames, D/60th by Lt. Kasler, H/60th by Capt. Starr - and several more. You could safely assume that in the course of putting these histories on paper, the Commanding Officers of the respective units were diligent, and took it upon themselves to address the necessary tasks against all odds. These Battery Histories are due to a long line of those men, many whose names will never be known. At great risk, they wrote them from memory whilst incarcerated in the Japanese POW Camps of the Philippines. They then concealed the scraps of purloined paper for the duration, again at risk to their lives. Not every battery history has survived the war. Our site has approximately 14 of them, and I have no idea how many we do not have. We have comparatively few histories of the 59th C.A., for example, probably because the extensive loss of life of its officers corps, who were the larger part of the men being transferred on the Arisan Maru. No doubt, with them, were lost the papers they were secretly shepherding from Japanese sight through their time of incarceration in the Philippines. Such is how tragedies are made. Their loss is all a part of the tapestry of wartime's recklessness with human life and heritage alike. I do consider that the survival of your uncle's citation through the war is another indication, if one is needed, of the precious regard that those men had for the heroic acts of those commemorated within those citations. The Battery Histories page is at
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Post by mapmaster on Jun 15, 2009 6:48:17 GMT 8
Hi Matt To post your uncle's citation (*.pdf), it would be best to convert it into a *.jpg (image or images) and host it on a site such as Photobucket. It can then easily be direct linked to a post in this Bulletin Board. If you need a hand to do this, please email me at mapmaster@corregidor.orgRegards mapmaster
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Post by okla on Jun 15, 2009 10:51:32 GMT 8
hi EXO....if memory serves and at almost 77 years it sometimes doesnt, the highest ranking, surviving officers (colonels brady/steele? ) of the 31st infantry regiment (US) after the surrender of bataan, while at cabanatuan, went to great lengths to piece together all the "hows, whats, and whens, etc" of the fighting on the peninsula and imprisonment. this type of activity, as you stated, was at great risk to their lives and/or well being. this info survived the war and was of tremendous help in reconstructing the activities of the regiment and various personnel after the conflict. i would suppose much similar activity was taking place at various points thruout southeast asia where allied prisoners were confined. these endeavors had to be very valuable at a later date in regard to citations for bravery etc, medical/disability claims and even long overdue courts martial activity.
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Post by mapmaster on Jun 17, 2009 8:00:47 GMT 8
Citation - Silver Star awarded to Rosenberry, Kenneth R. Battery F, 60th Coast Artillery (Antiaircraft) Regiment: Actions Fort Mills, Corregidor, 6th May 1942Posted for Matt
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 11:06:35 GMT 8
Guys:
Thanks for all of the great posts. I am learning so much. The pictures and the diagrams of the AA gun crew is great. I never really had a clear picture of that in my head.
I read today on the history of F Battery that the first time that most of the the F Battery guys had ever fired their 3" AA gun was against the Japanese on 12/10/41. That is remarkable.
Mapmaster--thanks for posting my uncle's citation. I would appreciate any comments on the contents of the letter. I think the actions described as occurring on May 6 must have occurred in the early morning hours of May 6? And why would Kenny have been asked to man a machine gun (instead of whomever was trained to do that)?
What do you think it means by "firing two twelve inch guns at an enemy area in such a way that these powerful weapons were rendered useless by their own discharge"? What would the enemy area be?
Just trying to piece it all together.
Thanks for all your help.
Matt
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Post by okla on Jun 17, 2009 22:55:57 GMT 8
hey matt....i am just making some more of my infamous, "uneducated guesses", but i would imagine that your uncle, although inexperienced with machine guns, was still qualified to fire such weapons. when the majority of his unit was moved into position to possibly help repel japanese infantry, his commanding officer/platoon sergeant/etc had enough confidence in him to assign him to the MGs. as far as the disabling of the "big guns", as i understand it, the recoil mechanism can be fouled up by the method used to fire the biggies. battery boy/phantom and others can, i am sure, divulge several differing senarios on how to sabotage these artillery pieces. after the surrender the enemy retained many american gunners on the "rock" in an attempt to get as many of these batteries back into service as possible. i never did see the point in this since they were of virtually no use in repelling the invaders when they attacked from bataan to begin with and the minefields were keeping the Japanese navy out of the bay. the arrival of modern airpower had rendered the coast artillery almost obsolete by december 1941. why the japs thought putting the batteries back into operation was a profitable use of the prisoner's labor is beyond me. as to kenny's services in the final hours, he and his battery mates were used in whatever manner the higher ups thought most feasible. beach defense, backup for the marines and scouts as infantry, or manning anti aircraft MGs as it was in his case. whatever, he was a legit corregidor hero. as i said in a previous post, you have a right to be very proud of the man. hope my little tidbit or two is of some help.
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