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Post by The Phantom on Jul 24, 2012 2:13:10 GMT 8
Happy Birthday Okla! You're doing pretty good when your age is as high as the low summertime temperature in Oklahoma in the summer.
How much of the Navy tunnels were lined with railroad ties where the cement ended? Like some tunnels off the main Malinta Tunnel?
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Post by oozlefinch on Jul 24, 2012 4:04:27 GMT 8
Okla, Happy B'Day. You sound like you're in good shape for the shape you're in. Keep it up. Fots, here's another thought. What if several of the so-called Navy Tunnels south of the south entrance to the QM system were nothing more than storage tunnels and didn't actually connect to the Navy system? Not including the QM south entrance, but including the entrance off San Jose Point, there appears to be some evidence for six Navy Tunnel entrances, five in the hollow (for sake of a better name for this recessed area in the hill). Does anyone think that all of these tunnels connect to the main N-S tunnel from the QM area to San Jose Point.
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Post by sherwino on Jul 24, 2012 7:47:47 GMT 8
Good pics of the torpedo. Before I thought torpedoes aren't that big. I thought someone could carry them with his own hands.
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Post by sherwino on Jul 24, 2012 7:48:37 GMT 8
happy birthday, okla
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Post by wwalker on Jul 24, 2012 8:51:19 GMT 8
Happy Birthday Okla! Hope that you have a good one!
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Post by fots2 on Jul 24, 2012 9:08:58 GMT 8
Oozlefinch, From our 2009 surveys, blueprints and any maps we could find, there was only one tunnel connection from the QM tunnels over to the (original) South Entrance at the SW corner of Malinta Hill. This connection existed at least four years before the Navy tunnels were ever considered. In 1939 the Navy released funds to Army Engineers to construct four new tunnels in the same W and SW sides of the hill. The existing tunnel plus four new ones makes a total of five. As far as we know, three of the new tunnels were dead ended and the fourth tunnel (Queen?) connected to the South Entrance tunnel. I doubt the Navy would have wanted their tunnels to be directly connected to the Army’s QM tunnels anyway. Your suggestion regarding the Navy tunnels being also used for storage is supported by the Belote brothers in their book “Corregidor – The Saga of a Fortress”. They state “The largest, Tunnel Queen, was an elaborate affair designed to refuge the headquarters of the Sixteenth Naval district. The other tunnels held stores, food, stuffs, spare torpedoes for Asiatic submarines and a naval radio station”. A Japanese photo from just after the 1942 surrender shows three tunnel entrances in the west side of Malinta Hill. They are located between the Malinta West entrance (further North) and the two SW corner Navy tunnels (further South) that remain today. This gives us visual evidence that at least five tunnels existed which agrees with the documented number of Navy tunnels. Japanese photo showing three tunnel entrances. When you say “six Navy tunnels”, are you referring to the tunnel from the QM area to San Jose Point as being #6? I don’t think this was considered a Navy tunnel as the four new ones they paid for were all on the W/SW side of the hill. I can only guess that the Army wanted their own South entrance so they had it constructed separate from the Navy contracted work. This tunnel also provided a direct route to get QM materials in and out of their storage laterals not to mention another emergency exit. At least for me, these tunnels are an interesting subject however there are still gaps in the information we are collecting.
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Post by oozlefinch on Jul 24, 2012 10:53:29 GMT 8
Fots - I was counting the south entrance by San Jose Point as the sixth Navy tunnel. Why was I counting that as a Navy tunnel, and not a continuation of the QM tunnel system? Because it is not shown on the '36 map. If the Navy tunnels were started in '39, and the San Jose Point tunnel was begun/finished four years earlier, it should have been on the '36 map. The '42 Japanese photo is interesting, as it shows the purported three Navy tunnels, but does not show the south entrance to the QM system. Using the '36 map, the '42 Japanese photo and knowing where the two Navy tunnels are today, in '41 and '42 there were a total of six tunnels in that hollow, one Army and five Navy. Or have I missed something?
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Post by chadhill on Jul 24, 2012 11:22:02 GMT 8
Happy Birthday, okla!! Have one on me... ;D
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Post by fots2 on Jul 24, 2012 12:22:29 GMT 8
Nice photo Chad.
oozlefinch,
This can be confusing for sure.
It was not the ‘QM to San Jose Point’ tunnel that was constructed at least four years earlier but the ‘QM to South Entrance’ (SW side) tunnel. It is shown on a Malinta Storage System blueprint as existing by June 30th, 1935. This is not shown on the 1936 Corregidor map, I have no idea why but definitely an oversight. The ‘QM to San Jose Point’ tunnel was constructed sometime after July 2nd, 1940 which is the date of the blueprint.
The field of view of the Japanese photo is not wide enough to include the two existing tunnels. They are out of sight to the right (South). At the top right of the photo you can see a little valley. This valley lies between the three tunnels in the photo and the two SW Navy tunnels. Look at the labeled photo. The hillside is tree covered now but you can make out the valley between the two groups of Navy tunnels. (By the way, the little valley is still there. I have come down off the hill via this route three times now).
The total number of tunnels is five, one former Army and four newer Navy.
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Post by okla on Jul 24, 2012 21:04:41 GMT 8
Hey Chad....I haven't had a snort since 1985 (nor a cigarette since 1984 due to high blood pressure problems), but for a swig of "Old Corregidor" I would relent. One belt couldn't hurt a thing. I want to thank all you good folks out there who have sent along Birthday wishes on my "Numero 80". It is truly appreciated by this old goat. To think that at one time in earlier years that I actually said that if I made half a century I would be satisfied. I must have taken leave of my senses, but who expects to make 80 and be in fairly good shape. I have been truly blessed. Cheers to all of you fine people.
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