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Post by fortman on Jul 24, 2012 23:00:48 GMT 8
Happy Birthday Okla, from this side of the Int'l Date Line. Thanks for your interesting inputs to the forum.
fortman
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Post by The Phantom on Jul 25, 2012 4:06:25 GMT 8
Fots, your picture of the charcoal from possible burned rail ties on the Navy tunnel floor, also contains some rusted metal bolts that appear to have been large enough to be used to hold trolley ties together along the walls and ceiling.
I have seen those metal bolts in some other wooden ties on the island, in tunnels and outside.
It is quite possible that most wooden objects in the Navy tunnels burned in the fires.
Those unburned could have been carried off the island or used like those along the road on Bottomside as steps in front of the hotel canteen, across from Mac-Arthur's. Those appear larger than most you see.
( Not to mention the cut off huge wooden poles in this same area used to line the road and the canteen area, probably former Antennas from somewhere on the island? From Topside by the Mile Long Barracks antenna farm---for the islands local radio complex set up as Mac Arthur's all Philippine radio communication. From above Battery Way near that radio complex or from the Tail near the Radio Intercept Tunnel, or by Battery Keys. Most in their home locations show signs of having been cut off.)
Many pre-1945 artifacts you see on present day Corregidor are not where they started their existance on Corregidor.
The versatile wooden ties were used in the construction of defensive positions by the American's and Japanese. There are numerous such positions all over Corregidor. Some cover below ground bunkers, some are buried standing straight up on hillsides etc. with soil piled in front.
Remember Col.Bunker complaining he could get no wooden timbers for HIS tunnel so he raided the Navy's topside building for its shoring material.
Bunker had shored up his tunnel complex near Wheeler but there is not one bit of evidence of anything he used back then in his tunnel today. ..................................................... The 3 buried tunnel entrances shone in the picture fots, has anyone been inside any of them from inside Malinta Hill? I have explored many tunnels inside Malinta but never in that area.
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Post by oozlefinch on Jul 25, 2012 4:47:47 GMT 8
Fots, I may be getting this now. Are you saying that the three tunnels in the Japanese. photo are located north of the hollow where the QM south entrance and the two Navy tunnels are located? If so, do you think that the remains of the building in the photo might be the bakery?
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Post by okla on Jul 25, 2012 5:47:12 GMT 8
Hey oozle....I am wondering if that staff car (1940/41 Ford? shown in the Japanese photo) would have any "trade in" value. I betcha most Japanese Staff Officers would love to acquire said vehicle, if not too shot up and some American mechanic from the Motor Pool was available to fix her up. Another prize of war, methinks.
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Post by fots2 on Jul 25, 2012 8:05:44 GMT 8
Phantom, I made a mistake in my Reply #47 to you. Sorry about that. When you mentioned “Like some tunnels off the main Malinta Tunnel”, I thought you were referring to the QM tunnels and not the Navy tunnels. I deleted that reply and will correct it now. It is the QM tunnels that had the intense fires and NOT the Navy tunnels. I see no evidence at all of there ever being fires in the two Navy tunnels. To answer your question, the main shafts were concrete lined. The only unlined part we can see today is in Roger(?) and are just two narrow pilot tunnels. They are too small to have had wooden beam supports. There are no wooden beams in the Navy tunnels at all. The photo below shows spikes and burned wood in one of the QM laterals. The three tunnels seen in the Japanese photo never connected to anything inside Malinta Tunnel. I expect the Navy wanted it that way.
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Post by fots2 on Jul 25, 2012 8:06:59 GMT 8
oozlefinch,
You got it now. Yes the three tunnels in the photo are north of the hollow and Yes, that long building is the bakery.
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Post by pdh54 on Aug 5, 2012 21:46:48 GMT 8
Morning all, In reading more of the Corregidor GI book by Jerome B. Leek, I came across the following excerpt. He has just arrived on Corregidor during June of 1941. He is describing Corregidor. page 69 Chapter VIII .........Coming in a northwesterly direction, from there, one comes to a high, challenging hill, known as Malinta Hill. Through the base of this hill was a mass of tunnels and laterals. These were known as: --Malinta, Queens, Fords, Navy, Gasoline, etc. (the emphasis is mine) What do we know about Fords tunnel? And he has Queens and Navy listed separately. I understand there was a period of transition from all Army tunnels to some of them being Navy tunnels, with the building of more for the Navy. Could this use of the names for Queens and Navy be the result of people just needing to get used to Queens being under the Navy now? I had thought that we think Queens was one of the Navy Tunnels. Am I setting up to be confused for no reason because I am missing something that has already been discussed? I do know that Chad can't recall Fords tunnel being mentioned before though. Patty
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Post by fots2 on Aug 5, 2012 22:26:24 GMT 8
Hi Patty, Welcome to the joys of sorting out conflicting information. I have a feeling that this GI was not “someone in the know” and had no accurate knowledge of the tunnels. Sounds like the source of his information was gossip. The tunnel name “Fords” has never been mentioned anywhere else that I am aware of. He does not realize that Queen is one of the Navy tunnels and as new tunnel, never did belong to the Army. (Only one Army tunnel, the original South Entrance, became part of the Navy tunnels). All other Navy tunnels were new constructions starting in 1939. The Gasoline tunnel is part of the much larger 'Malinta Storage System (usually just called Malinta Tunnel). I hope this helps.
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Post by pdh54 on Aug 5, 2012 22:48:22 GMT 8
Fots,
I am learning. Hahaha
You are probably right concerning Leek's knowledge. Maybe Fords just refers to a "locally" used name for another tunnel, maybe after a "hard nosed" sergeant or officer.
oh well, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
thanks for responding Patty
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Post by fots2 on Aug 5, 2012 23:31:59 GMT 8
Patty,
You are very welcome. Your questions make me think about it too. It is easy to get confused.
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