|
Post by The Phantom on Feb 4, 2014 5:39:45 GMT 8
Before the U turn hits, kudos's on the Feb.-1945 photo of the lower Stockade, Intermediate school, N.C.O qt-rs area. Not to mention across the Engineers Ravine to the Pistol range etc.
Having seen the pr-war pictures of this area, it is scalped completely by this time. Maybe the American prisoners were made to collect and stack up all the G.I. sheets that made up the roofs and many of the prisoners barracks walls. The barbed wire fencing material around the old Stockade and the poles are also gone in the 1945 picture. The walled area running north---south in the 1945 photo is still there and has a Hostel on the top edge, though in disrepair.
That's the toilet I was trying to find for you last year Fots.I found it many years ago and asked the oldest guide if it was Japanese? He was the guide for the Japanese tours on the island, just recently died I believe, he said it didn't exist. I said I'd show it to him, "why bother", he said, "it doesn't exist".
I believe you are right Fots, it is on top of the old fort, and not far from an American gun position. I asked the Guide if it was a Japanese comment on the captured Spanish and American war positions that they would daily take a S..t on? That's still my opinion on it's location.
Fots, I think I see something we also talked about above Engineers Ravine in the 1945 photo that has been minimized.
#207 still holds some secrets it appears.
|
|
|
Post by Registrar on Feb 4, 2014 8:57:21 GMT 8
I should if there are any more terrible puns.
I am still chuckling about the line..."I said I'd show it to him, "Why bother", he said, "it doesn't exist". Bless his heart!
|
|
|
Post by oozlefinch on Feb 4, 2014 13:37:40 GMT 8
Just a quick SWAG on whether the building was Japanese in origin. In looking at the roof, it appears that it was reinforced with an additional layer of concrete, such as was done to Bunker's C-1 station. Waddayathink?
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Feb 4, 2014 13:44:47 GMT 8
Hi Phantom, Regarding the toilet, my wife tells me that her Grandparents had one very similar to that at their house out in the province many years ago. Since they are common in Asia, including Japan, it really tells us nothing definite about the origin of the one on top of the Spanish Fort. OK, finished with the toilet subject. Here are the few facts about Building #207. Maps label this building as “Civilian Employee Quarters”. Quoting from a 1922 document, that appears to be correct as it states: concrete foundation, G.I. sheeting roof, wood floors, 28’ 6” x 26’ 4”, 1 story, 5 rooms, capacity 1 family, cost of $350 and unknown construction date. This is obviously not what we see seeing on this spot today. As I mentioned, there is talk that this structure is the only building on Corregidor to have been constructed by the Japanese. I was told that this information came from a man named Daniel Howell who lived on the island for a few years (in the 1990s if I am correct). In the past I was unable to contact him. Since Corregidor misinformation is quoted daily on the island, I place this story on the “possible but unlikely” list. For me, there are more clues that point to this concrete structure as being US in origin. No one I know of has any proof one way or the other. Building #207 is still a mystery. Behind the Pistol Range is a dark area if that is what you are referring to. Something may be there but buried. Battle reports from 1945 do mention a fight taking place near Engineer Ravine at a large cave or tunnel. I don’t think we know where that action took place. By the way, this thread is about the Casiana, not Building #207 or a toilet. Sounds like multiple hijacks are in progress. Chad will shoot us all.
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Feb 4, 2014 14:19:23 GMT 8
Oozlefinch, That is one of my points so I agree with you 100%. The top layer does not even seem to be the same type of concrete. Yes this does look exactly like the reinforcement work done to such structures as C1 and the Telephone Exchange/Harbor Defense HQ buildings.
|
|
|
Post by Registrar on Feb 4, 2014 21:34:41 GMT 8
I know Danny Howell, fairly well as it turns out.
He told me words to the effect (and I have no reason to disbelieve him) that (a) the Japanese reinforced (or added to) that building because they turned it into a munition store for anti-aircraft guns they had facing the southern area and (b) they had not done anything similar anywhere else on the island to his (then) knowledge. This was in 2001 or 2002, I recall.
|
|
|
Post by wwalker on Feb 5, 2014 5:23:13 GMT 8
Hello,
Very interesting stuff. Just a suggestion, but maybe not an answer: if you look at the Engineer Annex of the Wainwright Report on this website (http://www.corregidor.org/chs_moorerpt/annexe.htm) and scroll down to number 18 it mentions the reinforcement of various buildings on Corregidor. It seems they were doing quite a lot of this especially after the war started. I have also read in other books that bombproofing or reinforcement layers of concrete were added to many buildings on Corregidor, but I've never had the pleasure of walking around the ruins of the island so I have no idea how common it is to see this evidenced today. I've never looked at this thread and have enjoyed the pictures of President Quezon's yacht Chad. Good stuff.
Here is another interesting bit of information from Bunkers diary, written down on Jan. 8, 1942:
President Quezon's yacht "Casiana" has been hit by a bomb and sunk at her moorings. This was formerly owned by Doheny of the Teapot Dome scandal and was bought by Quezon about Nov. 1936--See my diary of that time.
It sure would be fascinating to read some of Col. Bunkers pre-war diaries, as he served in the Philippines several times before the WWII period.
Here is another bit from Col. William C. Braly's post-war memoir (based on a diary he kept during siege):
The Quezon yacht Casiana became a casualty in Corregidor Bay during this period. Her masts remained above water with the American and Filipino flags flying.
|
|
|
Post by batteryboy on Feb 5, 2014 10:26:42 GMT 8
#207 was reinforced by the Japanese an it stored ammo for the 120mm DP guns. Other Japanese ammo depots were the old land defense stations in proximity to where they would mount the guns.
|
|
|
Post by fots2 on Feb 5, 2014 15:32:46 GMT 8
wwalker, the reinforcements you have mentioned are part of the same project that oozlefinch and I were referring to. Thanks.
Registrar and batteryboy, thanks also for this information which is quite believable. The concrete structure seems to have been initially built by the US but later reinforced by the Japanese. (By the way, US Army Corps of Engineer maps show this structure to have definitely had a pre-war US military purpose in that it was “Unit Command Station #5”.
The information I get from both of you is light years ahead of the gossip heard on the island however I must ask this question if I may. Is this info what you were told from someone or you have official documentation stating this? I know, I am becoming a synical old SOB in my elderly years but the more you read on any one subject, the more it conflicts. Is this hearsay or fact?
|
|
|
Post by Registrar on Feb 6, 2014 7:30:24 GMT 8
In my case, Fots, it's hearsay from Danny Howell.
Though let me say this, Danny lived on the island for several years, and was responsible for a huge number of "finds" which are now in the museum there. He had pursued extensive research in the US, and was a man obsessed (far beyond the level of any of us.)
The telling item, in the physical sense, is the incontestable existence of the Japanese-style plumbing arrangement which suggests that it was intended for a senior Japanese officer (or officers). No ordinary Japanese soldier has the clout to do build such a thing. So, for that reason, I suggest it indicates the installation was a place where Japanese Officers of a higher rank who were visiting Corregidor would be taken as part of their "tour" so they could inspect the AA gun, get shown a demo of how efficient the gun crew was, have a look at the view and take a few snaps for the family album, latrine break, and then move along. The view from the Spanish Fort would have been spectacular in those days.
|
|